David Manley | 30 Jul 2012 6:09 a.m. PST |
Ares have posted the first image of the new models on their website. You can see it here: aresgames.eu/4865 I see they've decided to change scales to 1/1000. I hope this isn't a final decision. Personally I see this as a big negative point, although I suspect they are doing it to work against people who may have existing models. But it is a pity as I suspect Ares willnever be able to produce the range of ships that people will crave and now they've given them a headache as to how to source models in the same scale. That said I suspect the manoeuvre cards will work "as is" with 1/1200 models so its not as bad as it could be. I'm looking at scaling up the cards and using the rules for 1/450 scale frigate actions, which is where I think these rules should do really well. As far as the preview model on the website is concerned – it looks pretty good. The paint job is a lot more basic than I thought it would be, although I can appreciate why it is that way (I always suspected the early expectations were too complex for what is a mass produced product) and there looks like a lot of scope for those with an artistic bent to improve the paintwork. Looking forward to seeing them in the flesh |
79thPA | 30 Jul 2012 6:49 a.m. PST |
I don't know. A 74 gun at 1/200 would be pretty large, especially if you put a squadron of ships per side on the table. I agree, I would like to see "small unit" actions with frigates and smaller ships at a 1/400 to 1/600 scale. Depending on the price, I can see myself picking some of these up. Are these behind schedule? I thought they were due out by now. |
SBminisguy | 30 Jul 2012 7:19 a.m. PST |
Any idea what the price of these will be?? |
A Twiningham | 30 Jul 2012 7:26 a.m. PST |
I agree it is a shame. I was in at 1:1200 as they would match my Langtons. I was really looking forward to a vast expansion of my fleets. I'm not throwing in with another scale. I might try the rules, though. |
David Manley | 30 Jul 2012 7:27 a.m. PST |
1/1200 not 1/200 (which would be impressive but quite large) :) The original intention was to produce the models in 1/1200, the same scale as models available from Langton, GHQ, Navwar and Skytrex. |
Virtualscratchbuilder | 30 Jul 2012 7:51 a.m. PST |
Wow
.. now we have an 11th scale for sailing ships (1/300, 1/450, 1/600, 1/700, 1/900, 1/1000, 1/1200, 1/2000 and 1/2400, 15mm and 28mm). I don't think we needed to go there, and this will be a hard sell to us'ns already committed to this aspect of the hobby. |
The Beast Rampant | 30 Jul 2012 8:21 a.m. PST |
There you go- a watched pot never boils. I second (Third? Fourth?) the desire to see them stick to 1/1200. Having some good-looking proxies might get me going on adding in sweet metal models. As it is, I am too daunted to bother starting, so have gone with 1/2400. Not that I'm not interested in the SoG game for its own sake, but having miniatures doing double duty is a BIG thing (I'm big on sabot-basing individual minis). And I am obviously not alone. Also, great to see WoG WWI Series 5 out! |
The Beast Rampant | 30 Jul 2012 8:27 a.m. PST |
And David- if I forgot to thank you for the XVIth cen. rules you sent me some time back, thank you for the XVIth cen. rules you sent me some time back! |
Timmo uk | 30 Jul 2012 9:57 a.m. PST |
A huge, huge disappointment to me, I was ready to dive into this in a big way. The models look rather less good than I expected them to, but why oh why have they made this brainless decision to go for 1/1000? I now simply won't buy them at all and I wonder how many others feel the same? I had intended to use these adding other models from GHQ or cut down Langtons. After waiting so long and being quite excited about this I feel totally let down by Ares for promising so much
grrrrrr To be honest I now think if you're not up to making 1/1200 using 1/2400 would be a better bet than these plastic offerings. I think ARES have saved me a lot of money
|
War Artisan | 30 Jul 2012 10:06 a.m. PST |
It appears they are too far along in the process to reverse the scale decision. Perhaps they weren't aiming at marketing to those who already have 1/1200 models, but mainly to those not already into naval gaming. Or maybe they thought that naval gamers would scrap their existing collections and start over in the new scale. Neither one seems like an example of clear thinking. What impresses me about the project is that they appear to have found a way to make Age of Sail wargaming more accessible (and, let's face it, the bar to entry can be a bit daunting, in terms of time, money, and modelling skills) but this isn't very helpful in that regard. And speaking of clear thinking, what's up with the sails? I know ships look pretty with every stitch of canvas set, but that's not how they typically went into battle. I can see collectors wanting the mainroyal, much the same way that they like to see their model soldiers take the field in clean full dress uniforms . . . but the courses down, even though they were virtually always hauled up on the brails to keep them out of the way during combat? And a spritsail?! It just looks wrong to me, but I suppose the majority of their potential customers won't be bothered by it. |
Mako11 | 30 Jul 2012 2:00 p.m. PST |
"
although I suspect they are doing it to work against people who may have existing models". That's definitely why they are doing it. A shame, since I am now no longer interested in them. |
The Beast Rampant | 30 Jul 2012 2:06 p.m. PST |
People Who Proxy Pewter Models for Use in SoG Game- Vs. People Who Proxy SoG Models for Other Wargames. COME ON. Which do you really think would be the greater number? I'm saying it would be around 1:6. |
Morning Scout | 30 Jul 2012 2:12 p.m. PST |
I was holding out to buy some ships to add to my fleets, but at that scale now I don't need to wait anymore. I was not looking at the rules as I play my own written set, so it's not big problem. Too bad though. |
Mako11 | 30 Jul 2012 2:35 p.m. PST |
I have a sneaking suspicion that the rules may not be as good as those already produced, and being used by naval gamers already. I was very disappointed in Trafalgar, so expect it to be more likely than not that this set may disappoint as well. Still, I will be happy to be proved wrong, and either way, if they are widely distributed, perhaps they will breath new life into Age of Sail gaming. |
Demiurgo | 31 Jul 2012 4:27 a.m. PST |
Hi, I am Roberto Di Meglio, Ares Games' director of production. I would recommend that you take a look to the comparison between a Sails of Glory ship and a 1/1200 ship we posted today on our Facebook page and on Sails of Glory anchorage (the SoG forum). The two scales CAN be used together if you really want to. And you can definitely use our ships with 1/1200 scenic items. Our focus is to create the best possible models and (just like most miniature manufacturers before us clearly did) if we have to increase the size of the ship slightly to do a more beautiful model, we do. The real difference is that we're telling you clearly which scale our models follow!
And please note we don't NEED to use a unique scale to "protect" our game system. Each ship in Sails of Glory comes with a unique playing base and maneuver deck. So they are "protected" already and we don't have any gain in using a scale slightly different from what is (in theory, if not in practice) the market standard. So we've no reason to give an excuse about a change of scale which is necessary to create a good model, but of course means potentially to lose the interest of some customers, who do not have an interest in the game but only in the model! |
TunnelRat | 31 Jul 2012 5:09 a.m. PST |
Just had a look on Facemuck to be honest you can see the difference in size. Saying you can use the SoG ships with existing 1/1200 models is like saying you can use 15mm & 20mm together. I was very interested in SoG as a games system but after seeing this I seriously doubt I will be buying it. Not using an existing scale for the ships is a mistake on the part of Ares games IMHO & may cost the company a lot of missed sales from those of us who have existing 1/1200 miniatures. |
Timmo uk | 31 Jul 2012 5:52 a.m. PST |
I'll add here that over the course of a few years I was intending to build the Trafalgar fleets, that's 60+ ships since I can't hope to do that with 1:1200 metal. I wonder just how many ARES 'game' customers would buy that many models or in fact as many models as any 'wargame' customer who wishes to portray historical actions. Just as with WoG there are lots of us who have bought an awful lot of WoW/WoG planes (including many duplicate models) to use with other rules. I've seen the image and there is no way 1:1000 fits with the models sold as 1:1200. What the image doesn't really show is the bulk of both, and the stern on the ARES model is a blob of white plastic with a flag stuck in it. Why? That bares no relation to scale model making whatsoever, nor have any of the details, the yards, the sail detail etc etc so I really don't think ARES can claim their 1:1000 models are any more accurate as scale models than those sold as 1:1200. Of course we'll never know how many more models ARES would have sold had they stuck with 1:1200 but I sadly suspect SoG isn't going to be a hit like WoG WW1 has been. These could have been, so, so good. |
Demiurgo | 31 Jul 2012 1:47 p.m. PST |
Timmo, the "blob" is actually glue used to fix a damage in the ship. The photo is just a rough shot to show a size comparison. And when I am talking about 1/1000 vs. 1/1200 I am not comparing with what other manufacturers are doing. I am just comparing OUR 1/1200 scale prorotypes and 1/1000 models, and I KNOW the latter are way better than the former. |
11th ACR | 31 Jul 2012 2:39 p.m. PST |
I will stay with my 1/600 scail ships and home grown rules. |
Mr Elmo | 31 Jul 2012 5:43 p.m. PST |
They are OK but have no rigging. They look a bit naked. Painting lead ships was never the issue, its the rigging. |
Timmo uk | 31 Jul 2012 11:21 p.m. PST |
What I'd really like to see is the SoG 74 photographed side on with a GHQ 1:1200 metal with the sterns level – that will give us a better idea of the relative sizes (in terms of length and height), this top down view does much to disguise the differences in scale. Langtons are a bit big for 1:1200 but GHQ are considered the most true to scale. I can now see from the actual product image that the stern is not a blob of white plastic but a more appropriately shaped piece of white plastic. I almost think if the models couldn't be done well in 1:1200 they would have been better going much larger and using 1/700 (to match Skytrex) or 1/600 (to match the old Airfix Victory). |
whitejamest | 01 Aug 2012 8:20 a.m. PST |
Also, the photo on Ares' Facebook page does not show how their models compare with even the large Langton ships in the height of the masts and spread of sails – I suspect that in particular is where the difference in scales will look strikingly incompatible. Obviously gamers can use different scales of miniatures together – it's not a physical impossibility. But the visual elements are a huge part of this hobby. Otherwise we would all just use counters for everything. Having a big Ares 74 that dwarfs a 1st rate is just going to detract too much from the experience. Though that's a personal decision on my part of course, and everyone will draw the line where they choose. They had the opportunity to make sales not only to those new to the genre, buying their first ships and trying new rules, but also to those who would have liked to add lots of new ships to their existing collections quickly. Just a very strange choice on their part. |
Fotherington Thrip | 02 Aug 2012 7:48 a.m. PST |
Well I for one am very excited about the promise of the SoG stuff and can't wait to see them in the flesh. Very happy to see shots in progress too. Thanks for posting Demiurgo too. Can you answer the question of what rigging can we expect to see on the models? Cheers |
Mark Barker | 15 Aug 2012 3:19 p.m. PST |
I can only presume no rigging, the paint job seems very basic and I can only hope not representative of the final product. Some airbrush weathering on the sails perhaps ? Sure, with some work (washing/highlight and drybrushing on the sails, add some ratlines, put some decent detail onto the stern, tone down the very stark sides, then add rigging) you could come up with a decent result but these are supposed to be pre-painted miniatures ! Like most people on the forum I was hoping for kit that was at least visually compatible with my Langton fleet as I just don't have the time to bash out as many ships as I would like. As such I was hoping to buy the rules and lots of follow on minuatures as I have with the WWI range and to a lesser extent with the WWII (where again the odd decision was made to go with a non-standard scale). The WWI original releases were superb quality – subsequent sets have not really hit the same levels in my view. So, probably just a starter set for me (assuming we are talking less than the 60 Euro price tag for the re-issued WWI starter set with minis). I share DM's disappointment with this and second his views in his discussions with the company, that this is a real opportunity missed
Mark Barker The Inshore Squadron |
Buck215 | 06 Jan 2015 3:07 p.m. PST |
My first impressions of the game are negative regarding the fragility of the ships' masts. The packaging of the box I purchased did a great job of hiding the fact that two of the ships in the box had broken masts. If they can be easily broken in the packaging, then it is that much easier to break them when playing them in a game. The publishers should make and effort to strengthen those fragile parts… |
David Manley | 06 Jan 2015 10:11 p.m. PST |
The fragile mast issue had been corrected in subsequent production runs |