"Tricorne-era Skirmish / small-battle rules?" Topic

Just wondering what's hot these days in what seems to be a pretty fast growing area of rules.

I like a point system for pickup games, terrain rules, scenarios, and lists or suggestions for historical forces. A campaign system is also great, one of the more fun aspects of skirmish gaming. In short, I'd like a complete set of rules.

Could also cover ImagiNations by allowing you to choose certain characteristics for your forces that were historically of different nations.

My main area of interest is FiW and AWI, but they could be rules geared more towards 7YW or some other area of the Tricorne period, as long as they could be adapted easily.

Muskets and Tomahawks?
TMP link

The Two Hour Wargames Muskets&Mohawks and Longrifle cover both man to man and small unit actions. They include campaign rules.

Also check out Gloire and "Among the Warparties" for very small actions. Two or three figures a side works great.

nice link. I'll check out the reviews. I've heard good things about SAGA but been put off by the high price.

There are a couple of other suggestions in the link, including:
This Very Ground (unk to me)
Sharpe Practice (Too Fat Lardies)

Reminds me that The Sword and the Flame (TSATF) did a 7YW variant many years ago.

I really enjoy Sharp Practice by Toofatlardies. Like so many TFL products it can be adapted into whatever period/campaign you want. There are already some great supplements out on the AWI in the Southern Colonies and last year's sunmer special had rules and scenarios for FIW. The TFL yahoo group also has several scenarios in the files section for AWI and FIW.
Unlike so many skirmish rules, the morale and casualty mechanics are pretty realistic.

Mark

Sharp Practice would get my vote too – there is a specific supplement for the FIW as well in a recent special.

To Mark's point, another plus is that you are not tracking every broken finger nail as with many skirmish sets.

Here's some bat reps showing how both can be used.

link

link

Cruise down the blog and you'll find at least a dozen bat reps.

Good luck on your search.

The variant for TSATF is called The Sword in the Forest. It is primarily aimed at small unit actions with 10/12 to 25 or so figures per unit (which could be at any level you want). It is about 2/3 the way down this page: sergeants3.com/18.html . You do need to have TSATF in order to play this variant.

A couple of battle reports:
Game at Bayou Wars: link
Play test of Bayou Wars game: link

Jim

Check out the Perfect Captain's Yahoo group & web page. His John Bull nicely covers small AWI battles. It is an unusual scale. 4 to 6 stands = 1 company. Stands function together as companies with each stand being a "platoon." In the Yahoo files there is a variant for the FIW. I haven't played them yet as I am still acquiring the troops, but they read well.

John Kelly

John, what are the weapon ranges? I'm wondering about table size, etc.

Musket range is 16". The scale is officially 10-15 yds per inch.
JPK

Brother Against Brother, the ACW rules include a FIW extension. Very clean and easy set of rules

We've used Sharp Paractice and (smaller size actions) Songs of Drums and Shakoes. Works fine for 7YW

Read the Muskets and Tomahawks blog articles, sounds interesting from a thoroghness standpoint. The mechanics as described don't sound particularly interesting (I hate charts and modifiers unless they are VERY simple) but I like it when tactics that should be in a game are, and it sounds like M&T has put in lots of the additional stuff needed for a skirmish game.

Overall, the needs of a skirmish game are much more detailed than in a larger game, as setting a blockhouse on fire, or using a wagon for cover, etc, can all be valid tactics that might be used in such actions. Rules mostly concentrate on fire, movement, and melee, but many small fights are won because one side used a key terrain feature or tactic.

May I suggest Brink of Battle? I bought a copy out of interest and it should work very well for Tricorne era skirmish games with a hand full of figures per side.

brinkofbattle.com

You might also consider a little book that has Blood and Swash (for small skirmishes) and Thunder and Plunder for slightly larger battles. I believe it's available for download from RPGNow.

Buck Surdu

I'd second Buck's recommendation with the caveat that when Buck says "small skirmishes", he means it. The basic B&S rules are designed for each player to have four figures. They are simple enough that you can expand that to two blocks of figures per player without too much trouble, or accommodate groups of 3-6 if some of them are beyond average in ability. T&P is designed around 10 man units, with players controlling a unit of two plus a hero/leader or two.

Skirmish / small battle to me is in the 25-50 fig range, with the ability to handle up to a hundred in larger units of 20 or so. About The Sword and the Flame sized.

I found another set of rules as I organize my gaming area. 2-Hour Wargames "Black Powder Rules". They have the typical action sequence, and are for the entire horse and musket period.

I followed all the hype around Musket and Tomahawks and was impressed, but held off buying because of price also my pal was getting it so I thought I would try it first. I wasn't impressed at all. It is a 6 and you are dead set of rules, fine if you are happy with that type of game but I think Sharp practice gives a much better game. Its all about what you expect from a game personally I suppose, but I wont be buying M&T

Isn't Sharp Practice more complicated?

How about using the Light Infantry rules from Charge or the War Game.

Sharp Practice isn't more complicated, hits are taken in whole figures and/or shock points that reduce a units ability to function as well. I just prefer the feel of the units losing the ability to function as it takes hits reflecting the morale effects of been shot at, to having 90% of a unit wiped out in one fire segment of the rules by a good set of dice rolls. I just don't get all the hype about M&T its just War Hammer FIW.

"I found another set of rules as I organize my gaming area. 2-Hour Wargames "Black Powder Rules". They have the typical action sequence, and are for the entire horse and musket period."

I actually had time to look at the rules: they are actually called "Black Powder BATTLES: skirmishing with musket and shot". They are a 2004 release and it says they combine two sets of rules: "Mayhem: Muskets and Mohawks" & "Mayhem: Warring Nations", and it says they "up the scale" from 5 figs a player to 30 figs a player. As units are organized into groups of 5-10 figs, it is about 3-6 units.

The game comes with and expects you to use a quick campaign system rolling up troops.from four different "generic" types. There are additional variation lists for FIW, AmRev, and Napoleonics.

There are about 19 pages of rules and another ten of lists and the campaign. It looks very good for solo play. It is however a game that is based upon actions and reactions, and therefore uses plenty of charts altho it seems many will become known quickly.

I'm seriously considering switching to 40mm figs, and this looks ideal for 25-40mm figs.

RE: Sharpe Practice

My reservations regarding TLF rules is that they leave too much up to the player. They tend to leave out terrain and scenario generation with the (poor) excuse that players know – or should know – how they want to play. They also leave out things like defining the terrain types. IABSM was tried a couple of times, we really liked a lot of it, but it's more like GM'ing an RPG to host a game. You have to make lots of decisions to set the game up, you often realize you've forgotten something important during a game and then you have to wing it while in play. It then has a significant impact on the game since each side was playing with an assumption that you have to now dice off or decide upon.

There's really no excuse for it. You publish a COMPLETE set of rules, and then players who want to modify it. You don't fail to COMPLETE the rules and dump it on the players to finish them for you.

If Sharpe Practice is like IABSM, then I'll find it the same frustrating, disappointing, exercise. However, I'm open to people's input otherwise.

I tried IABSM too and I wasn't convinced. It was a bit fiddly and quite a bit of work too cos I had to run it as the other player didn't know the rules at all. The out come of the game though was a very realistic one however. Sharp Practice is not as intense as IABSM. You still need the cards but that's it really. As for terrain and scenarios there are some at the Yahoo site and also in one of the summer specials that has a Sharp Practice supplement for the FIW. I would also have thought that any wargamer has done at least a little reading on his period and so has a good idea of terrain scenarios and forces involved. Personally I enjoy a bit of research and getting to know a period that's why I am not keen on the 5-6 your dead type rules and I can usually make a decision as to how terrain effects movement too. There is also a full chapter of scenarios in IABSM and a section on terrain effects too, I dont know how you missed them, Sharp Practice also has section on moving and drill of the period so no problems there either.

I play TSATF with virtually NO "special" adapttions beyond adding bows.

I've recently played my my first game of Muskets & Tomahawks and, along with the 3 other players, gave it a big thumbs up. Rules were quite quick to grasp – it helps if someone's familiar with them! The lack of control due to the card activation does a very good job of recreating the chaos of the skirmish. The officer traits can also add greatly to the mayhem – guffaws met the redcoats firing at the Indian raiders only to have their chief use the Guerilla trait to pull them back into cover and out of range of the muskets! During our game one of the objectives was to burn a homestead which was accomplished by spending 'x' action points. That kept the process simple whilst giving the attacking player options of continuing to try and burn the homestead or use his action to try and fight off the enemy trying to stop him. I like rules where the processes are simple but the outcomes quite complex and i think M&T achieve this.

I have to say that I regularly played Warhammer for years and totally disagree that this is Warhammer for the FIW.

I second Shootmenow's view of Muskets & Tomahawks. It gives a great game full of character and fun if you use the full set-up of objectives, officer traits, sub plots, etc.

Warning it can be brutal and quick once you get into close range with muskets, not recommended for 'precious' players!

I just can not understand all the excitement about Muskets and Tomahawks, there seems to be a lot of hype around when certain rule sets are released a sort of emperors clothes effect seems to take place. There are much better rules for the FIW like, This Very Ground and others already mentioned like Sharp Practice and Two hour warmers rules for the period provide a better black powder skirmish game in my own precious opinion. Rolling 12 d6 and removing figures on a 4+ just doesn't float my boat anymore.

We just played our first M&T game and will try out the other rule sets…but for a first game it was great… and it was a very basic version with many rules omitted.

At one point one player did roll 8 dice – volley fire from a british platoon…lots of bangs and not too many laughs on the receiving end.

I can see the point about the emperors clothes but if you do paint your figures, build your terrain, and have a great time whats the prob?

Eric

I couldn't resist – I bought Ganesha Games "Song of Drums and Shakoes" with the view to try and use it in the FIW / AWI, no idea if it'll work. My thought is that the drill and advances in military practice of the Napeoleonic wars were at a larger scale, and "a skirmish is a skirmish". I also think it'll make a very good Imagination set of rules for smaller type battles.

La Petite Guerre can be just as fun as grand scale, I think.

FYI, the designer weighed in and said that the Swashbuckling set of GG rules has more "heroic" attributes and the SDS have more "historical / realistic" ones. YMMV, but looks like it migh tbe fun for any part of the horse and musket era.

And heck, at $8 USD for the download…I'm sold!