kaydet | 25 Jul 2012 2:04 a.m. PST |
I'm trying to get a wargaming club set up, and I'd like to run 1:285 WWII battles. Unfortunately, I don't have much experience with micro-armor, and I'm having significant difficulty finding the right set of rules to use. I thought I would turn to this community in the hope that someone with more experience might be able to provide some guidance. I have a few preferences listed below: 1:1 scale (one model is one tank) Historically accurate Capable of running a battalion-level engagement in 3-4 hours I don't know if a game even exists that encompasses these requirements; if that's the case, I would welcome any suggestions as to the best rules to use in a club environment. |
MajorB | 25 Jul 2012 2:09 a.m. PST |
Historically accurate Are any rules historically accurate? |
Marshal Mark | 25 Jul 2012 2:19 a.m. PST |
Blitzkreig Commander is good for club type games because it is very easy to pick up for new players. Once you know the stats of your troops (which is very simple) and a few basic rules, that's all you need to play the game. One base does represent a platoon or troop though. |
Derek H | 25 Jul 2012 2:21 a.m. PST |
Cpt Winters wrote:
I would welcome any suggestions as to the best rules to use in a club environment. The ones the club members enjoy playing. Not very helpful if you're looking for specific suggestions I'm afraid, but it's the simple truth. In my experience rules that are loved and adored at some clubs are loathed and despised at others. |
BattlerBritain | 25 Jul 2012 3:12 a.m. PST |
I'd suggest keep the rules simple and quick and build up the size of forces a player handles over time at the club. The other thing is to try a few different rulesets and see what people like. For WW2 we used Fire+Fury Battlefront WW2 rules as a good Battalion level game. The best evening game we had for WW2 was using the original 'Squad Leader' rules with miniatures. That was epic :) and loved by everyone. Crossfire also proved popular. Just try a few and see how they fly. |
elsyrsyn | 25 Jul 2012 4:06 a.m. PST |
Blitzkreig Commander is good for club type games because it is very easy to pick up for new players. Once you know the stats of your troops (which is very simple) and a few basic rules, that's all you need to play the game. One base does represent a platoon or troop though. BKC can be played at either one stand per platoon, or one stand per vehicle/squad. That said, I suspect it's not going to be "crunchy" enough for the Captain. Doug |
Striker | 25 Jul 2012 4:36 a.m. PST |
Mein Panzer might fit the bill. |
Dynaman8789 | 25 Jul 2012 4:49 a.m. PST |
BKC I would discourage (and often do). The rules make it so that multiple attackers can penetrate more then a single attacker. The rules were originally used for another period and it shows. For those really wanting crunch like ASL there is Schwere Kompanie. A bit less crunch is Fireball Forward. More of a focus on infantry and battlefield chaos is IABSM. A good set for larger actions is Fistfull of Tows, covers wwii to modern at platoon scale but can be used for 1 to 1 scale. Edit – look sarge no charts is also worth a look, technically platoon level you could use 2 tank models per platoon though. |
Rrobbyrobot | 25 Jul 2012 5:18 a.m. PST |
I've used Jagdpanzer for nearly two decades. they are simple, easily played rules. Fast to learn as well. One vehicle, or gun is one vehicle, or gun. Infantry are Squads, or crews. And they're desighned for microscale. |
ACWBill | 25 Jul 2012 5:27 a.m. PST |
Command Decision IV Test of Battle or Spearhead are my preferences. |
Dynaman8789 | 25 Jul 2012 5:32 a.m. PST |
Cd4 and spearhead are platoon level stands though, and neither scales down very well. (Like em both, just not what the poster was after) |
ACWBill | 25 Jul 2012 6:19 a.m. PST |
Frank Chadwick just released a set of squad level rules which I bought at HIstoricon. They are sitting at home so the name escapes me for now. I will post it later. |
boy wundyr x | 25 Jul 2012 6:54 a.m. PST |
I Ain't Been Shot Mum is my ruleset of choice for my micro armor gaming, but as an alternative GHQ's Micro Squad (or Scale) rules are available from Wargame Vault. |
vdal1812 | 25 Jul 2012 7:30 a.m. PST |
@ACWBill The name you're looking for is Men Under Fire. I picked them up at Historicon too. They look good and could work for the OP. |
ACWBill | 25 Jul 2012 7:36 a.m. PST |
Thanks vdal, thats the ticket
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kaydet | 25 Jul 2012 8:07 a.m. PST |
Jagdpanzer looks interesting, but it sounds like it's out of print? What's the difference between Men Under Fire and Command Decision? |
jekinder6 | 25 Jul 2012 8:18 a.m. PST |
Men Under Fire is a skirmish game. Players are squad leaders. It's not what Cpt. Winters is looking for. I vote for Crossfire. |
goragrad | 25 Jul 2012 1:05 p.m. PST |
There are also Mobius' 'Panzer War' rules. Haven't run a larger scale battle with them, so don't know if they fit your battalion in 3-4 though. May depend on number of players, webpage says platoon to company per player. They are free
. panzer-war.com
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kaydet | 25 Jul 2012 1:46 p.m. PST |
I've considered Panzer War, but I've heard that it's a complex and time-consuming set of rules. |
ancientsgamer | 25 Jul 2012 9:25 p.m. PST |
Mein Panzer is your best bet as you can decide how detailed you want to get
. Very fliexible as you drop in things like mines. |
Mark 1 | 28 Jul 2012 9:51 a.m. PST |
I've played or read through more than a dozen rulesets over the years. Several of the suggestions on this list are not 1-to-1 unit scale. So be careful to check that issue before you make a purchase based on input from the folks here. I played many games with Mobius' Panzer War rules. I give the rules very high marks, but they are out at the far end of the scale for details and realism. You will be VERY frustrated trying to run multi-player games at battalion scale, even if you allow 10 or 12 hours per game, much less 3 or 4. I have read through Ritter's Schwere Kompanie. The rules look very interesting for platoon or company-level games. But they will not scale well for multi-players per side. I used to play TTG's Armor and Infantry. The current version (updated in the 1990s) get high marks from some folks. They are fast-playing rules. But they take some getting used to (and time to learn), as they now have a structure of "modes" for every unit that defines what actions the player can or can not take. Also the infantry is fire-team based, rather than squad-based (2 or 3 bases of infantry to a squad). This makes it very hard to do larger scale battles (more than 1 comnpany per side) with combined arms, as an infantry company has 3 x more units to play than an armored company. I prefer Mein Panzer for my games. These rules work very well for multi-player games. The turn sequence is based on platoons vs. your entire force -- each player moves/shoots with one of his platoons in each slice of the turn, so you don't have one side sitting and waiting for 30 minutes while the other side moves tons of stuff. Also these rules integrate infantry and armor well. There is less detail on the equipment than in Panzer War, but a LOT more than in games like Flames of War, and maybe 1.5 more than in fast-play rules like Armor and Infantry or Jagdpanzer. For me the key to the realism I perceive with these rules is the flow of battle
it has a very good feel to it. Makes the games fun. But hard to finish a big battle in less than 6 hours, at least to my experience. Jagdpanzer rules are fast and easy to learn. They make for fun games. They have indeed been around for ~20 years, but there is a new/updated version coming out soon (I am one of the beta playtesters). Google their website. I would say they are my #2 prefered rules at this time. Larger games play reasonably well, but you will want multiple game-masters for multi-player games, or the turns start to drag. These are, in my opinion, your best bet for battalion-sized games with multiple players and a 3-4 hour time budget. My views. Your mileage may vary. Kids DO try this at home. Hope that helps. |
UnfortunateWound | 28 Sep 2012 9:53 a.m. PST |
I'd say Crossfire or I Ain't Been Shot, Mum. Both are firm favourites among my gaming groups. |
DanLewisTN | 30 Sep 2012 9:36 a.m. PST |
Crossfire and IABSM, while both outstanding rule sets, don't fit into his requirements of batallion level game. |
Neroon | 30 Sep 2012 12:55 p.m. PST |
Have you considered GHQ's Micro Squad? You can download a PDF version for FREE from the Wargame Vault. link |
Daedalus | 10 Dec 2012 7:27 a.m. PST |
Just so you know. Jagdpanzer is back in print with a second edition. Much improved infantry rules and a streamlining of AT fire that speeds up the game but does not alter the results or the feel of the first edition. They can be purchased at the following URL. jagdpanzer.com I have played these rules for almost twenty years and very seldom play the game with less than six players
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