"Sell me on a set of WWII rules" Topic

I played Command Decision for many years. But due to age, exposure to lead (kidding!) and other factors, I'm looking for something simpler that meets the following criteria;

Works well with 15mm ('cause my eyesight is shot)
Allows battalion/brigade sized games
Uncomplicated rules (don't make my brain hurt)

Is there a set that is as simple as say…"Volley and Bayonet" that works for WWII?

Not my cup of tea, but it sounds like Blitzkrieg Commander fits your criteria. The mechanics are simple and it's designed for the same scale as Command Decision

With Command Decision, did you play the latest version (Test of Battle). I find that to be th simplest of the versions and plays pretty darn quickly. Last weekend I took six new players through a six turn scenario in less than two hours.

Mike

BKC2 = quick to get into once you grasp the C2 system (and nuances such as fielding the appropriate number of command stands for the size of force you're deploying on table). Uses fistfuls of dice approach to combat (you either love that or hate it, its a personal thing so YMMV). Comprehensive army lists for almost all theatres in the main rulebook and army generator online. Points based, so you can 'balance' forces that way. Scenario generation system as well.

Rapid Fire 2 = perhaps the most simple system, intended to be a return to classic 60s-70s style gaming. Fairly limited C2 rules. Plays fast and very easy to get newbies into. Main rulebook only has army lists for late war UK, US, USSR and Germans. So you need to buy supplements for everything else. Many scenarios available from various people online. Not really a points game.

CDTOB = heading towards the more sophisticated end of the spectrum, but way more streamlined than CD3. Some very clever new rules mechanisms, especially for HE fire, commander's reserve, H&I artillery fire. Main rulebook only has army lists for late war. You need to buy the supplements for other stuff. Has a points system.

Pz8 two pages WW2 wargames rules are really simple but give a nice game at battalion/brigade level. They are intended for 6mm but you can simply double movement and ranges.

panzer8.weebly.com/rules.html

Give FFOT3 A look. Change scale from 1" to 2" per 100 meters and you are set. Free demos exist for wwii and modern.

Rapid Fire is simple and fast – though it may shortchange infantry too much.

Really simple is pz 8's rules, but I think they have a good feel to them.

BKC is fine if you don't mind a totally unrealistic armored combat system. Actually I hated the buckets of dice it required too – I actually got bored rolling all the dice required to play it onfe.

There's always Flames of War. The other rules mentioned above, with the exception of Rapid Fire, are all better IMHO but Flames of War has a huge player base (you'll always be able to find a game) and very active support.

Blitzkrieg Commander 2. Give it a try.

I'm also an old CD player, and so far I like what I see in BKC. I may look into CD-TOB eventually, though.

Doug

Jeez. I wish you guys would spell out the rule title the first time you use it.

Fireball Forward. Being released this week at Historicon. You can order it from Brigade Games.

Here is the website where you can download a free playtest kit.

fireballforward.com

Mark

Maybe you can find something here.

link

I vote for Blitzkrieg Commander as well(I greatly dislike Flames of War).

Isn't Fireball Forward a stand = a squad? Seems to be on the low end to represent a brigade.

My gripe with BKC is that melees really get bogged down. I'd streamline the melee process.

You could always make a VnB variant. I know there is one for the RCW.

Wasn't there a game out there that had one stand = a battalion?

^^^I think it is called Mega Blitz.

Megablitz…a great idea but half-baked and one of the worst rules ever edited. I read them from time to time and end up scratching my head trying to figure out what the authors were trying to explain.

I´m trying hard but there are a load of holes in the rules.

Megablitz is pretty much unplayable as published.
Nice ideas, but terribly vague. I'm sure it works fine if you have the author or someone familiar with the rules to run the game.

There really was a Volley and Bayonet WW2 set. Pop onto the VnB Yahoo and ask a question there, or check out the files section.

I just did a seach for WW2 on the VnB Yahoo group, and there are a few rule sets listed in the VnB style.

This set by Andy Nicoll of Cheltenham club:

link

There are others. I think I downloaded a free set from the files years ago – no longer there alas. I'll see if I can dig them out.

Blitzkrieg Commander. 1 or 2. Both excellent. Easy to play, easy to pick up again after doing something else for a while.

PLEASE tell me that the new FIREBALL forward does not use a pack of playing cards????

For company and battalion sized games, you can try my rules – Combat Action Command – combatactioncommand.com – there is a Free download of the Infantry Rules available on the Downloads Page – Lee the author

Hi

Piquet Field Of Battle WW2 are an alternative set well worth a look

For those of you in the Philly- Baltimore area of the US, we will be running a Combat Action Command demo game (Kursk 1943 at 1pm) at Barrage Con which is being held at the Community Hall in Havre de Grace, Maryland on September 15th. Link to Con events, info and directions below. Hope some of you can make it! Lee

link

Hey Lee, on teh combat commander rules. it looks like infantry skirmish or am I not getting the right read?

Do you have a sample of one of the tank charts that I can actually read. The one on the web site is too small, so I can't really get a good feel for what's involved.

Thanks

Dan, not a correct read. Probably because the Free Download Demo Rules were infantry centric. Combat Action Command was designed for Company Sized battles with several platoons of Infantry and 5-10 AFVs. I have also played a lot of FoW and what makes a good battle in FoW will also work very well with CAC.

You can however have fun with smaller battles, which is where the "skirmish" capability of CAC comes in. At Cons (in fact also at Fall In this year)I like to run Demo Games based on the final battle from the movie Saving Private Ryan which features about two dozen US Paras/Rangers (mounted on 8 bases) and 50+ Germans (mounted on 14 bases) with the two Tigers, two Marders and Halftrack, etc. And this size makes a great CAC game!

I always like to listen and respond to Combat Action Command comments on The Miniatures Page. Since the free CAC Light Rules were intentionally "Infantry Centric" to demo the rules, I understand why you have requested a sample AFV Data Card to download.

Therefore, I have added a link to download both Tiger I & II Data Cards (pdf format)under the small picture of the Tiger II (King or Royal Tiger) Data Card on the website Home Page.

combatactioncommand.com

Enjoy! Lee

PS. If you do not have the full rules set, some of the terms (such as PAV and FAV) might be unfamiliar. Feel free to ask here or via email from the website. For example: FAV = Fully Armored Vehicle (i.e. a tank) while PAV = Partially Armored Vehicle such as a halftrack.

Thank you Lee! That's really good customer service!

> PLEASE tell me that the new FIREBALL forward does not use a pack of playing cards????

It does. A regular deck. But the mechanics are interesting, you are the Red or Black cards. Ref pulls cards till he gets a different color and stops. You get as many activations as cards of your color, and you can activate whichever platoons you want (groups actually, usually each group is a platoon equivalent).

So the game floows like this.
Pull 5 red cards then a black. Stop there. Red player activates 5 platoons.
Pull a red card. Stop there, black player activates one platoon. (1 black card had been pullled)
Pull a red card followed by a black. Stop there, red Activates 2 platoons. (2 red cards total pulled)

There are initiative chits that allow a platoon to activate twice in a turn, or to cancel an opponent's activation. These are allocated in various ways to the players.

Early war soviets use a slightly different system – they have assigned cards for each platoon (no picking which gets activated).

Just roll a d12 for activations if you don't want to bring out the cards. Works out the same.

-B

Long time CD player. Test of Battle didn't streamline play enough for me. Went to BKC and am quite happy. Same size battles, much easier play.

The newest Combat Action Command supplement, The Pacific 1942 – 43, will be released in late October in time for HMGS' Fall-In 2012 Con in Lancaster, PA USA. This supplement has 10 pages of new Pacific Theater special rules covering items such as Banzai Attacks and Amphibious Landings, plus dozens of new team Data Cards covering everything from the US Marines and Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces, through P-400 Fighters, Zeros and Betty Bombers, to US M2A4 tanks and Japanese M-3 Stuarts captured in 1941. The M2A4 saw its only combat use in WWII with the Marines on Guadalcanal. Also play "what if" battles with famous units such as the First Special Service Force and US Para Marines.

We chose the 1942-43 time period for our first Pacific supplement because there were many interesting battles besides those on Guadalcanal during these years. And also because this period of the Pacific War is perhaps the most balanced portion of the entire conflict. Earlier battles in 1941 with MacArthur's forces in the Philippines and with the UK forces in Malaysia and Hong Kong were all pretty much one-sided affairs. By early 1944 and for the rest of the Pacific War, the Japanese stood little chance against the ever increasing American and Allied Juggernaut of ships, planes, and troops arrayed against them.

But in 1942-43 things were very evenly matched, which is why the Guadalcanal campaign took months to conclude. We've also added in an interesting array of special units that actually fought, or that could have fought, in these battles. Units such as the First Special Service Force and British M3 Tanks captured by the Japanese. They were available, could have been used and make the rules much more interesting.

Visit the Order Now link on the combatactioncommand.com Home Page to place your Pre-Order!

Lee – The Author

Here is an excerpt from my Combat Action Command BLOG which shares some insights into the CAC rules, which is why I have posted it here today. I have written other BLOGS on this topic, but as more and more gamers get into CAC it is worth repeating. The name of the rules Combat Action Command comes from one of the key features of the rules, that being the ability to issue a Combat Action Command (i.e. a CAC) to a team. We call that CACing a team which then gets marked with a blue and white CAC Marker. CACing a team allows it to fire during either move phase, or move at the beginning of the fire phase. Players pick this up quickly.
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What is a bit trickier to master is that CACing must be done one team at a time, and ALL actions involved in playing that CAC must be resolved prior to CACing another team. The most common mistake new players make is to point to several teams and say "I want to CAC them all to fire at your Tiger tank". That is incorrect. You must specify a single team, CAC that team and resolve its fire against the Tiger before CACing the next team to fire. If the Tiger tank CACs to fire back (causing a CAC Duel) then those results must also be resolved before any other team CACs. Likewise in the fire phase, teams are CAC'd to move one at a time and if they fire, or are fired upon, that must be resolved before the next team CACs!
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This sequence produces the most realistic results and was developed during over 7 years of playtesting.
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Another common mistake is assuming that playing a CAC allows you to move or fire twice in the same phase. That is also incorrect. A CAC let's a team fire in a move phase or move in the fire phase, but it can NEVER move twice or shoot twice during the SAME phase. A team may be able to move or fire twice during the same TURN, depending on which phase a team uses its CAC. Essentially to maximize your rate of fire, a team will CAC during one of the move phases to fire; while to maximize its movement, it will CAC at the beginning of the fire phase to move. A side benefit of CAC use is that it eliminates a lot of additional rules about rate of fire and double time movement. You as the commander decide when to "CAC" which also controls how many times a team gets to move or fire during a turn.
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You can declare a CAC to fire the instant the first move phase (Side A Move) begins. Experienced players use the initial setup, or Phase 5 during a game, to carefully plan their most cirtical "first shot" of the coming turn's Side A move phase. Regardless of whether the moving side (Side A) or the non-moving side (Side B) declares the first CAC shot, it is never a "cheap shot" because the target always has the option to CAC to fire back causing a CAC Duel (d6 roll off modified for the firing team's Combat Quality). I have seen major fire fights break out at the beginning of the Side A move phase with actual moves only coming after several enemy teams or tanks had been KIA or reduced to burning wrecks. As in real life the action is fast and furious and players need to be "engaged" for the whole of each phase every turn. I can remember walking around a hobby shop shopping while my opponent moved in traditional I GO – U GO games. Not in CAC! The Author

We call that CACing a team

That really is an unfortunate turn of phrase…

But not as bad as this;

You as the commander decide when to "CAC"

Sometimes, after a vindaloo and six pints, I dont always get the chance to choose when I CAC.

I never want to be involved in a CAC duel.

That would be too messy.

My advise it to see what your other local players are using, learning a set of rules and discovering there is no one to play with is not good. If non-one is playing then you can be a trail blazer. I have researched platoon/company based rules, 1 element equals a platoon/company, and the main rules seem to be FFT3, Spearhead and Panzer Korps. GHQ has a set of rules, but I have no looked into it. There are several free rules out their (WDP, Tactical Command), and of course you can go to the very beginning and find an old copy of OMG Corps Commander or Korps Commander. All have yahoo groups setup which you and join and get more details.