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"GBP 300 for FoG V2.0..?" Topic


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Personal logo madaxeman Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 6:03 a.m. PST

Sounds like Version 2.0 of Field of Glory tabletop rules may – from this announcement – set you back close to £300.00 GBP/$500 (if you don't already own an ipad that is..)

"This is why Slitherine is today announcing the release of Field of Glory Ancients & Medieval v2.0 rules as an iPad, PC and MAC app….Updates and changes will in future be downloadable so that the system will always be up-to-date with the latest feedback and improvements. The same concept will be added to the Army Lists allowing deeper rule changes and balancing to enhance game play.
…The digital version of Field of Glory Ancients & Medieval v2.0 rules will release for iPad with full touch screen support and simultaneously we will release a version for PC and MAC"

link

Discuss….?

Personal logo vexillia Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 6:29 a.m. PST

No comments yet?

Perhaps everyone's too busy responding to Battlefronts recent announcements – bit.ly/MlHLfu – on FoW?

What a day: two major announcements both of which look more business than customer focussed.

--
Martin Stephenson
blog.vexillia.me.uk
amazon.co.uk/shops/vexillia
twitter.com/vexillia

JJMicromegas12 Jul 2012 6:47 a.m. PST

I personally like the iPad version of rules, but I can see if you don't own an Ipad how annoying this will be. You can always buy the rules and just take them to a local print shop to print them.

Personal logo Who asked this joker Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 6:52 a.m. PST

It says "The Digital version." does this imply that there will be another (print) version?

Unrepentant Werewolf at work12 Jul 2012 7:02 a.m. PST

Wow, two lots of "incredibly stupid" surfacing on the same day! Some people (companies) never learn…

Keraunos Inactive Member12 Jul 2012 7:06 a.m. PST

does that announcement mean there will be no printed version 2?

or just that if you buy the app version, you will not need photcopied pages of errata as well?

if the latter – its not so silly afterall, and in fact not an unreasonable option to give people

floating white bear12 Jul 2012 7:20 a.m. PST

I hate to think what the printed first rules and all the list books cost me. (And for sanity's sake I am not going to try and figure it out.) But the rules as .pdf or some elctronic form is the wave of the future. I for one like to buy a set of rules and instantly download it. There are several products I would have purchased sooner if I could have gotten them .pdf. Fire and Fury regimental comes to mind, I would have instantly purchased it as .pdf.
I also don't like getting into a system, taking several years to collect and paint armies, to find out the rules are no good! Will there be a .pdf of rules ammendments available to those loyal supporters of FOG who purchased all the book-format offerings? Rob.

Royal Air Force Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 7:20 a.m. PST

I don't have an issue with an epub of the rules, but only if is cross-platform and not restricted to apple tablets

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 7:27 a.m. PST

It isn't explicit, but it does say 'the move to digital' rather than phrasing to imply digital and printed simultaneously.

For there to be no printed edition would be surprising.

Marshal Mark Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 7:44 a.m. PST

The announcement implies that there will not be a printed version, and it appears you cannot print the digital version. It looks like they are doing their best to destroy the game.

Keraunos Inactive Member12 Jul 2012 7:45 a.m. PST

given that its osprey / slitherine, i'd be astonished if there was no print verison, unless Osprey have ended the arrangement.

to me, this looks like someone making the obvious jump to avoid a limited pdf wrapper, and going to a fully integrated electronic version via an app.

so they can push the errata out immediately acorrection is needed. If it allowed puching back of clarrification questions too – thats a real advantage over a print set (if they can do it).

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 8:05 a.m. PST

It also mentions 'apps' for tablets and desktops. Even if the tablet apps can't be used to print, that might not be true for the desktop variants as well.

Marshal Mark Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 8:09 a.m. PST

I'm pretty sure they would have said if there was going to be a print version. I suspect the arrangement with Osprey has ended. I also don't expect answers to any of these questions any time soon, from the lack of communication recently by the rules team / Slitherine.

Garand12 Jul 2012 9:20 a.m. PST

If they are doing a digital only version of 2.0, ESPECIALLY if it is platform dependent (like the new iBooks versions og GW's codicies), that will guarantee I will not give this company money.

Damon.

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 9:31 a.m. PST

One of the main pushes to app/digital only would be the possibility to disintermediate – remove the retailer/Osprey and other supply chain members.

The bet they would be making would be that the total revenue from a larger share of a smaller number of transactions [apps sold] would be equal or greater to a smaller share of a larger number of transactions [books sold].

I'm not sure I'd make that bet – might be a different story in a few years though.

Alternatively – perhaps they are jumping before Osprey pushes them? I note Ospreys own internal gaming projects to be released in August.

Steve W12 Jul 2012 9:35 a.m. PST

I dont play FOG but I thought I would check osprey and in their upcoming releases for the next 3 months FOG v2.0 isnt mentioned at all either as print or an app

IanB340612 Jul 2012 3:15 p.m. PST

I think they are done with osprey. I expect even with 1/5 the sales they would make more money by cutting out osprey, shipping, amazon, and brick and mortar lgs. The problem I have noted is that, at least in the US, is much of my gaming is at the LGS, who at least could sell me the fog rules before.

idontbelieveit12 Jul 2012 4:44 p.m. PST

If I can't buy a print version, hopefully one of my friends will print one off for me. It would be great if they could print one that was just text without all the photos of poorly painted troops and the embedded osprey art from the 90s.

Mako1112 Jul 2012 6:33 p.m. PST

More brilliant marketing!

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 8:02 p.m. PST

Another possibility, given that Osprey do the publishing and distribution and that RBS and co do the writing is that it is Slitherine themselves that are out. It is possible (but not probable) that we might see a mass Ancients game being announced by Osprey.

I must admit, I'm at a loss to describe what it is Slitherine actually do wrt FoG.

IanB340612 Jul 2012 9:25 p.m. PST

Considering the announcement is from slitherine I'm pretty sure you are off----

And osprey is already producing at least one other rules set that overlaps the fog rules….

Slitherine also has a comp based game under the same title, that I would guess does better for them overall than any miniatures set.

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP12 Jul 2012 9:55 p.m. PST

Ian – I mentioned that possibility as this could be read as Slitherine's reaction to being removed from the party. I think it is possible but not probable.

We'll just have to wait 6 months and find out I s'pose…

BigRedBat Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2012 3:39 a.m. PST

Didn't take to FoG, so won't be losing too much sleep over this one!

Keraunos Inactive Member13 Jul 2012 3:43 a.m. PST

I suppose its too much to expect someone on the FoG forum to ask and get an answer.

jameshammyhamilton13 Jul 2012 5:19 a.m. PST

There are some long replies from Slitherine on the FoG forum now.

Infact I think they were there when you posted your comment here.

kabrank13 Jul 2012 5:40 a.m. PST

Clarifications on the FoG Forum appear to indicate digital only.

Not sure if it will be printable from the digital copy.

The Club I attend has about 25 FOG players at present with many being of an age group where they do not own portable electronic devices where they could be brought along for games.

So this could be a major problem for them.

Whilst a fully interactive rule set is a great idea not having the ability to print or buy the printed version may well prove to be several years too early for most players.

Also who will "own" the digital media. Does it have to be downloaded each time you change your PC/pad [like itunes was/is]or is it a file that can be ported between your own devices?

Aksakal13 Jul 2012 7:17 a.m. PST

Hooray it will be digital update version wars. Better know where the about screen is and ensure all players are using the same version…

And 2.0 won't even address the real issues with the system…

Good for casual gaming.

Nick The Lemming13 Jul 2012 7:19 a.m. PST

They've clarified on the website – no printing capability. There's something about "maybe in the future technology will allow us to do that" but for the moment, no printing.

Keraunos Inactive Member13 Jul 2012 7:26 a.m. PST

that is a strikingly risky decision.

chriskrum13 Jul 2012 8:28 a.m. PST

It's worse than the no printing capability. The rules also won't be cross platform so they'll be locked to whatever device you buy them on. I'm not sure if they'll be available on any platform but the ipad.

There's some mumbo-jumbo about the apple store policy, etc. but it's silly. There are numerous cross platform ebook formats (including pdf) with functional drm (I'm not a fan but I understand the necessity)that would allow the rules to be used on a variety of devices (ipad, android, windows -- google nexus 7 hits the market in 2 weeeks, Microsoft surface in October). There's no reason to even use the apple store, especially if it restricts them only to an ipad. They simply haven't thought this out at all and they're going with about the worst option they could.

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2012 8:39 a.m. PST

Copypasta of an update:

'As mentioned by someone above the reality is that printed books are dying. Physical book stores are dying. Wargames rules are a niche product and if you take in to account the reduce access to customers and demand for print versions, the minimum print runs you have to do mean the price per unit goes through the roof. You'd have to double the price to make any margin and then again you'd be reducing the market because of the price you'd need to charge. And this is just the main rules – the army books are far worse off as they sell smaller numbers than the core system.

In addition, by going digital we take away the stock issue. There are significant numbers of Army books in the system and warehouse. Many of which will never sell, but because they are there we can't reprint.

Because we cant reprint we cant change the points values.

By going digital we can afford to change the points values of units and all the army books. This is never going to be possible in a physical rules system and why previous rules systems with army books avoided changing points values.

I understand there is some concern about how this is all going to work but we have been evaluating this for 2 years and are sure this is the best way forwards.

Other formats may come at some point but on day 1 there will be PC, Mac and iPad editions of the system. All formats share the same content so if we update a file, its automatically downloaded to all devices on all formats. This means everyone is always in synch. If we want to we can do yearly updates to the base system and tweak any errors/issues in the army books.

We'll definitely be listening to what you guys think but we think you need a bit of time to digest all the info.'

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2012 8:51 a.m. PST

Reet,

Having read the entire thread it seems they intend to deliver the content through an iTunes App in the same way that Battlegames does through one called Exactly. Battlegames is switching back to PDF files I understand.

Nae printing! Why not delivery through Kindle App I wonder?

Release date estimated as 'a few weeks'.

In my professional opinion, they do seem rather intent on Bleeped texting this one reet up.

Steve W13 Jul 2012 8:51 a.m. PST

I have digested the info…I refuse to buy an ipad or iphone or any other sort of mobile ( for which I have no need or use) just to buy set of wargames rules

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2012 8:59 a.m. PST

And you won't be alone in that Steve.

I would make a guess they are looking at themselves and their immediate pals in the techie industry and incorrectly inferring from that that their whole market is the same wrt ownership and usage of gadgets. They are going to find out they are wrong. I say that as an uber-gadget user.

teboj1713 Jul 2012 9:18 a.m. PST

It seems likely that the owners or board of directors of Slitherine are the same owners or directors of the company that will be running the software platform for the digital version.

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2012 9:23 a.m. PST

That would be interesting if true Tebo. Anything concrete to support your suspicion?

Personal logo great hall games Sponsoring Member of TMP13 Jul 2012 11:12 a.m. PST

Print on demand would have addressed all their issues and not cut out a huge part of their market. Margins might be narrower, but in various statements, JD says they don't expect to make any money on the rules and lists anyway.

WCTFreak13 Jul 2012 1:22 p.m. PST

thats quite nice, sure you will also be able to print it out as a usal errata..

Marshal Mark Supporting Member of TMP13 Jul 2012 3:33 p.m. PST

I would make a guess they are looking at themselves and their immediate pals in the techie industry and incorrectly inferring from that that their whole market is the same wrt ownership and usage of gadgets. They are going to find out they are wrong.

I think that is spot on. On the thread about this on the FOG forum, there are over 100 posts at present , with only one post saying this is a good idea. This is a huge mistake, and I hope they realise it and do something about it.

Lentulus13 Jul 2012 7:15 p.m. PST

OK, so a privately held, somewhat established UK software company that (for reasons never really clear to me) has a minor sideline in miniatures rules now shifts that product to become a customer for an even newer UK software company that could probably use some success stories. Does not look that mysterious to me; just two businesses that probably have principals in common working to leverage each others IP for mutual benefit.

You have read about the platform?

link

Quite interesting. Not, I'd say, your nice kind of interesting from a consumer standpoint (although I will keep an open mind until I see it), but interesting.

Update: Just checked they have three entire customers right now, all professional journals of the kind that are "free" to qualified subscribers.

Personal logo great hall games Sponsoring Member of TMP13 Jul 2012 8:31 p.m. PST

They probably really don't care about the tabletop game at all. Slitherine's real business is the computer games. I would hazard that this is just necessary to meet contractual obligations to continue to sell the Field of Glory computer game.

No one buys FOG2.0 for minis? Who cares? They can keep selling the computer game and making real money.

Aksakal13 Jul 2012 9:46 p.m. PST

Cynically going digital is cheaper for them and for customers than having to buy the entire fog range again because of the changes in 2.0.

It is more flexible (updates), but a rule set that needs that much mutability rather than play testing and sound mechanics goes beyond GW change rules just to perpetuate

Princeps14 Jul 2012 2:29 a.m. PST

Not having a print option pdf is a mistake. I'm happy to use my Kindle Fire for game rules, but always like to have a hard copy available as well. I think a lot of people will not be buying into this concept.

Tarantella14 Jul 2012 4:51 a.m. PST

Players of Version 1 and competition players might upgrade to V2 but newcomers to the hobby and younger people will be amongst those who wont buy it at that price.

I see Steam are selling a Sega Hit collection deal which includes most of the Total War series for a mere £34.99 GBP up until the 23rd of July.

Tarantella14 Jul 2012 5:09 a.m. PST

Tarantella14 Jul 2012 5:10 a.m. PST

Bangorstu14 Jul 2012 6:26 a.m. PST

It seems to be a weekend for dumb moves by wargames companies.

I suspect JD McNeil needs to understand that wargamers, unlike his good self, aren't necessarily that well off.

I mean, how many off us own an I-pad. Of those, how many would like to trust it in the somewhat liquid-rich environment of a wargames club?

Then, what is the battery life of an I-Pad? How will that affect tournaments, which is the life-blood of the rules…

If I forget to plug my device in before going to the pub, I can't play the next day.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Delbruck14 Jul 2012 6:48 a.m. PST

Since they claim they aren't making anyone money on FoG, I suppose the less they sell the more they make.

Count de Monet: It is said that the people are revolting.
King Louis XVI: You said it! They stink on ice!

Bangorstu14 Jul 2012 6:52 a.m. PST

Well they're getting hammered on their own forum, and on here, so maybe they'll reconsider.

Fingers crossed!

Personal logo Midpoint Supporting Member of TMP14 Jul 2012 7:24 a.m. PST

This is an entirely random thought, but both this and the FoW announcement would have made really good April Fool gags.

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