"ACW rules???" Topic

what set of ACW rules would anyone sujest i have used black powder but find they are OK but I get so frustrated with the orders system.

I think that's too big a question for a simple answer.
What sort of game do you want? Skirmish, big battle?
What scale?
What sort of rules do you already like? No point telling you to look at Two Hour Wargames or Too Fat Lardies if you don't like other stuff they've done.

What scale game are you looking for? Skirmish, small brigade size or regiment size? What scale of figures do you have and how are they based?

I have 15 mm based for They Couldn't Hit An Elephant and Fire n Fury which also works for Jonny Reb.

Elephant is card activated and Regiment or brigade level.

David

but I get so frustrated with the orders system.

That, believe it or not, is a good sign! It is meant to be slightly frustrating! Too many wargames allow players to have far more control over their troops than was possible in reality.

Give "Call to the Colors" a look, they are free from the yahoo group.

link

No idea if it would fit your expectations or not, but they are well presented and the price can't be beat.

I agree that on the regiment level, some rules make it seem like a messenger has to travel a great distance through perilous hill and dale, to deliver the all important message. It's usually about 500 yards. That's a little over a quarter mile. I could run that far in 2 minutes, or at least I used to be able to do that.

But the point is, way too much emphasis has been relegated to the brigade and divisional commanders. The individual regimental commanders really were not complete idiots. (well, maybe some of them were). Of course there were some miscommuications and downright mutany, but for the most part, everyone was on the same page. The problems arose when unforseen circumstances happened. Everyone attempted to do the right thing, which sometimes led to utter chaos.
And so in answer to your question, Go with the black powder rules for now. Lot's of other rules out there too. But someday, a holy grail of acw rules will be written.

Regimental – Regimental Fire & Fury

Brigade – Regular Fire & Fury

Played my first game of regimental a couple weeks ago and I love them. I am right there with you on BP, dislike the command system, and the whole toolbox approach.

Have to go with Regimental Fire and Fury or Brigade level Fire and Fury.

I am right there with you on BP, dislike the command system, and the whole toolbox approach.

Of course, you may not realise it, but that statement is self-contradictory. One of the great things about a "tool box" approach is that if you don't like a rule you can change it. Don't like the command system? Fine, replace it with a command system more to your taste! The game will still work.

On to Richmond

It's not contradictory at all. I don't like the rules as written, I don't want to sit and figure out new rules to replace them. I don't want to figure out unit stats, etc. Thus I don't like the tool box approach. Nothing really wrong with that its just not my preference.

Funny though I am considering using BP for colonials….go figure….

No, frustration with a rule set is not a good sign and encourages dropping a time period instead of playing a time period.

On to Richmond is a nice set if you want multiple stands to represent a brigade. I like Volley and Bayonet for a single stand representing a brigade.

I don't want to sit and figure out new rules to replace them. I don't want to figure out unit stats, etc.

Ah. Clearly, BP and similar rules are not for you, then. If you don't want to have to do any preparatory work I suggest you find a set of rules that doesn't require it.

No, frustration with a rule set is not a good sign

There is a difference between frustration with a rule set as a whole and frustation with a specific rule.

As noted above, we have used Fire & Fury for many years and like it a lot

There are a number of skirmish rules – but if are using Black Powder this suggests that Fire & Fury or a similar grand tactical set may be more your style

sorry lads im using 6mm

sorry lads im using 6mm

The size of the figures maketh not a whit of difference.

Polemos ACW. One set of rules giving you two levels of action. No, your armies don't always do what you want them to, but there's the challenge.

link

For more details – available on reasonably priced hard copy, or cheaper pdf format.

> sorry lads im using 6mm

Just take any 15mm rule set and double the number of figs on a base (what I have done with Elephant by TFL) or use CM instead of inches for rules that use inches.

Some more detail on what you dislike about the BP orders system would be helpful, if you hate the whole idea then Elephant will not be the rules for you, if it is just the execution then perhaps it is.

No, your armies don't always do what you want them to, but there's the challenge.

A mechanic that has that sort of effect, or limits the number of units you can move, is quite common in rules sets these days.

Regimental = Johnny Reb II
Brigade = Fire & Fury

Played my first game of regimental a couple weeks ago and I love them. I am right there with you on BP, dislike the command system,

A curious statement considering that both BP and F&F require you to roll to see if your units can move. Their command systems are quite similar in effect.

Funny, one of the things I like best about Black Powder is the command system! If you get frustrated with BP you probably won't like the Too Fat Lardies' wonderfully frustrating card system either.

I would recommend Fire & Fury or Regimental F&F. It is a popular rule set that has withstood the test of time rather well IMHO. But, again, you may not like the command system. I would also highly recommend On to Richmond if you can get hold of a copy.

Anyone who wants a copy of a PDF of the 1982 On
To Richmond rules go over to TMP's 'ACW Discussion'
board and send me a request on the 'Requests for me for
OTR rules' thread.

They're FREE and LEGAL, since I have permission from
the current holder of copyright (Don Perrin).

@ bede Yes they are similar, but I have played F&F since they first came out and still love them, I'll stick with them. I do not like the BP command system for Napoleonics I do not think it is a good fit. But that is my opinion.

@Margard Don't have immediate plans for using BP though like I said above I may do it for colonials, but that is a ways off and I might find something more to my liking by then.

You can get a set of my ACW rules (regimental level) free-for-nothing by contacting me at omemin@aol.com. If you don't like them, you're not out any cash.

They are part of my 3-piece suit of rules, 18th Century/Napoleonics/American Civil War. The others are also available if you want them.

Bob Bailey

"On To Richmond" for the higher level games. I don't play skirmish so can't help there. Sounds like Ed Mohrmann is offering the ideal solution to your problem. OTR is fast, lots of fun, and provides what looks to be historical outcomes. We use 6mm minis for it here and it works just fine and looks more like a real battle.

For regimental, I've never found anything I like as well as Johnny Reb II, though I use the house "tweaked" version known as JR 2.5

HistoryPHD,

Where would one find a copy of JR2.5?

Thanks,

Bill.

They Could Hit An Elephant rocks the ACW.

Johnny Reb 2 is my preference though I also play Regimental Fire & Fury with a group semi-commonly and it works well.

Cheers,

The Bandit

We dropped JRIII years ago and replaced it with RF&F.

Longstreets coming down the road, you lads are in for a surprise:)

Paul

clarkeshire,

I've read portions of Longstreet, so far I'll be sticking with JR2.

Cheers,

The Bandit

We use a home-brew set that's not too bad, but it's not great. Any suggestions for (extremely) fast play rules that will allow two players to fight a real;y big game (60 inits plus guns) in the course of a day?

60 regimental units? 60 platoon units?

I did a refight of Brandy Station with 35 cavalry regiments (in 14 brigades) 10 infantry regimeents (in 2 two brigades) and 10 full batteries (25 2 or 3 gun sections) in 4.5 hours with They Couldn't Hit An Elephant and 3.5 players

Might I suggest Gettysburg Soldiers? they seem like they will be more your cup of tea…err… coffee/whiskey. it is regimental scale. Infantry/Cavalry have a set move distance and the game is an igougo by phases, with players rolling off for initative in each phase. simple 2d6 combat resolution. the thing i like about it is that stuff is always getting killed, so it fits my image of a bloody civil war. the rules are spiral bound and are about 6" tall and a foot ish long, so the rules lay on the table edge without getting in the way. I have played them twice, first time was a large con game (over in 2.5 hours) and the second was a slightly smaller game introducing the rules to my group (over in 2 hours). the rules are written in an easy to read bullet point format in a good sized font and there aren't too many rules to bog the game down. Type Gettysburg Soldiers rules into google and you will find their website. it has sample pages of the rules and if memory serves they cost $15 USD
~Joe

We just did Lewis Farm April 1865 with RF&F. Great game, love the rules. Did 9 turns in 3 hours & 15 minutes with 4 players.

Wait for "Longstreet" to come out in August.

John – the size of the unit depends on the scenario, but as a general rule each unit (12-20 figures on a base 6 inches by 2 inches) will represent about 800 -100 men for a really big battle like Gettysburg or Antietam.
Dobber – we'll check out Gettysburg Soldiers…is that the same as the shop of the same name?

The Gettysburg Miniature Soldiers store in Gburg has copies for sale.

The 2 for $20 USD special offer price is available thru the website and at shows/conventions

gettysburgsoldiers.com

Larry GettysburgSoldiers.com