"WAB Alexander the Great lancers, what are they ???" Topic

In the Alexander the Great WAB-book, on page 72, there is an order of battle for The Granicus.
Under the Macedonian OB one finds : "6 x Lancers Cavalry"
What do I have to imagine for this ? What are they ?

"Thracian sarissophoroi served under Alexander the Great in his conquest of Persia"

" … light cavalry in the army of Macedon and various Hellenistic states. They wielded a shorter version of the infantryman's (pezhetairos) lance, but also carried javelins "

Companions?
I guess they are rated as heavy shock cavalry; Which I think was the way they were used in that particular battle.

Probably Alexander's Companion Cavlry.
They would look like cvalry in normal Greek armor, with bronze muscled cuirass, or linen cuirass.
They would wear an open face Boetian helmet, maybe with crest, maybe not.
No greaves, but probably boots.

They would be armed with a 12' light lance, but no shield.

I would imagine they are Prodromoi, lightly equipped cavalry who carried a lance somewhat longer than the xyston used by the companions. There is a good reference in Armies of the Macedonian & Punic Wars by Duncan Head who indicates they were Macedonians rather than Thracians.

Hmmm… I reckon the scenarios listing does not match the list.

Lancers or Sarissaphoroi are cavalry armed with a two handed lance longer than the xyston of the Companions. As such they are the sarissa armed prodromoi option from the list. They are an odd troop type that mostly disappears after Alexander's death- only the early Successors used them in ever smaller numbers. By the tiem of the established Successor empires they are never described again….

In the scenario they are the regiment commanded Aretes' "lancers" as described in english. It is not a large regiment, numbering only four squadrons-- so about 600 cavalry. They however were agile enough to deliver quick hard hitting charges by squadron and break up the formations of the larger numbers of Persian heavy armored cavalry. Most likely they were able to pull this off by hitting the flanks of exposed enemy units out of the dust as they tried to wrap around the Macedonian flank.

The confusion with prodromoi comes from another unit of cavalry in Alexander's army-- that of the Paionian prodromoi under their Prince Ariston. This was another unit of less than 500 or so light cavalry-- they were not likely lancers preferring javelins and swords.

I too agree that the lancer or sarissaphoroi may have originiated in Thrace- but the units in Alexander's army were not a Thracian ethnic unit--- but no doubt they were a combination of troops form different ethnicities.

Most of these troops that did not go home after the death of Darius were simple re-integrated as Companion squadrons.

Hope that helps.

sarissophoroi not sarissaphoroi oops… could not edit the edit..

also this is a good site with the A@A miniatures in 28mm..

link

Well I'm still confused , this is the cavalry breakdown as given :

9 x Agema Companions
10 x Companions
9 x Thessalian Pharsalians
10 x Thessalian Cavalry
6 x Lancers Cavalry
8 x Prodromoi Cavalry
8 x Allied and Thracian Cavalry

This would, in my opinion, rule them out as Pordromoi, Companions or Thracians, as these are being specified….

I had thought that Sarissophoroi were attired similar to Podromoi but equipped differently.

My impression was that the reason they fell out of favour with Successors is that they were light cavalry armed with a (shortened) pike- not exactly the most suitable weapon for scouting!!

Cheers

James

Well, gentlemen would these be mounted as lt cav, 2 per stand? Or single per stand! Iwill need your help with this question! Mike

6 x Lancers Cavalry = 6 prodromoi cavalry armed with kontos.

the prodromoi in this case can have thrusting spear or javelins.

"My impression was that the reason they fell out of favour with Successors is that they were light cavalry armed with a (shortened) pike- not exactly the most suitable weapon for scouting!!"

Of course one wonders why the idea caught on in the first place? my feeling is that this shortened pike is what is depicted on the Alexander mosaic-- what eventually became called a kontos- a long thick two handed spear. In my old age I tend to agree with Heckel that the Companion spear called a xyston wasn't anything more than a long thinner hoplite spear. The description of the use of the xyston befits something more like a Bengal lancers weapon, than a cataphract. Arrian confuses the issue by stating that the xyston is the same as a kontos of his day-- he may well have been wrong. The Kinch tomb shows a long thin "lancer" style spear with butt spike and point (which is sadly not viewable)…. the Macedonian cavalry are shown on the mosaic and the Alexander Sarcophagus wielding their spears overarm in the same way as a hoplite--- so the idea that their spear was normally twelve plus feet long is suspect.
I'd still stand by the notion that in a WAB scale game the xyston gets an advantage- and isn't as good as a kontos-- but defining what is a xyston is always going to be a problem-- since it's tough to even figure out where the word xyston comes from. It certainly was longer than the average cavalry spear-- but in a period when most cavalry did not use long spears at all any length of spear over six to eight feet would be 'longer'…
The notion that Thracian or other mounted scouts used lances is not any more a problem than French lancers scouting the army before Waterloo--- I reckon that they disappeared because they were supplemented by more readily available indigenous scouting cavalry- and the use of the longer spear eventually put them into the heavy cavalry regiments (just as Alexander's scouts were absorbed into the reorganised Companions after Bactria). Even in the armies of Antigonos and Eumemes the so called paides armed with lances-- disappeared soon after their war ended as far as we know… so it may well have been a fashion-- for younger troops or other ethnicities that wanted a path of promotion into the Companions… their tactical use as forlorn hopes seems to indicate this.
JJ

I believe it is very difficult when talking about such things as spear length etc as these weapons appear to have evolved over time. The sarissas carried by Alexanders troops seem to have been notably shorter than in the late successor armies, perhaps a natural tendency if someone is trying to poke you with a long sharp stick to arm yourself with a longer one.
So it is quite conceivable that the xyston evolved into a weapon of kontos dimensions from a shorter or lighter weapon.
The main variation in spears in hellenistic cavalry seems to have been between weapons normally used one handed compared to those used two handed. Selucid cavalry was described by the Romans, (Flaminus I think) as longchoroi and xystophoroi.
I would suggest the introduction of the shield in the early 3rd century bc to hellenstic mounted warfare was a likely cause of the demise of the light cavalry lancer, as their role had less requirements for the shock shock value of a two handed weapon while the ability to use a shield would have been a considerable advantage.

Definitely after the early Successors light cavalry went over to shield and shorter spears and or javelins. Even heavy cavalry often adopted these over the longer spear.
The lance wielding light cavalry seem to be a troop type of a very short duration-- maybe fifty years…. later on, kontos light cavalry were resurrected in the Roman Empire, so they are not totally impractical…