Lion in the Stars  | 06 Jul 2012 3:37 a.m. PST |
So I just finished reading Churchill's History of the Malakand Field Force (1897, for those not playing the period). Am I reading him correctly that a typical Regiment would have ~50 men per company in the line? Field strength of ~400, paper strength of 650 (Indian) or 800 (British)? Between those sick, heat casualties, and those wounded, 30+% of your force is in the hospital?!? |
| Sir Sidney Ruff Diamond | 06 Jul 2012 4:20 a.m. PST |
Can't comment on the specific campaign but that doesn't sound unreasonable for an army on campaign, especially one operating far away from its home. You can also factor in detachments to guard communications, particular localities etc. |
| Daniel S | 06 Jul 2012 4:35 a.m. PST |
Sounds about right for a campaign in such conditions. Disease, desertion, stragglers and a lack of arms, clothes & horses caused a lot of men to be absent or unfit for combat. It only gets worse the further back in time you get as outbreaks of disease could wipe out entire regiments in a matter of weeks. |
John the Greater  | 06 Jul 2012 5:45 a.m. PST |
Between disease, casualties, misadventures and troops detailed off for other duties a unit could hit 50% pretty rapidly. This is something to keep in mind when setting up a campaign game. Units start off full strength and green and end up tough but greatly diminished. |
79thPA  | 06 Jul 2012 6:17 a.m. PST |
And that cuts across the centuries. I was reading about a fresh Union regiment (about 1,000 men) in the ACW that was marching down the road and the author (union soldier in said regiment) wrote that the veteran union troops they were marching past thought his regiment was a brigade. |
Verplank1782  | 06 Jul 2012 8:21 a.m. PST |
Here's an example from the AWI. When the Northern Army evacuated Ticonderoga and Mount Independence on the night of July 5-6, 1777, the 3,000-man garrison included 1,000 men who were sick or injured. Newly-raised Continental regiments which were then forwarding recruits to Ticonderoga or Peekskill were still far below establishment strength as the campaign began. Regiments that fought at Freeman's Farm on September 19, 1777, such as the Second New York Regiment (Poor's Brigade) were doing well to have 240 men, rank and file. |
| Old Jarhead | 06 Jul 2012 8:48 a.m. PST |
Rifle Brigade, during Tochi operations in 1897, started with 21 Officers and 801 Men. At the time they were sent back to Miranshah, they had 6 Officers and 425 men (although some of the ORs were barely fit to march). And they had seen very little action. |
| AICUSV | 06 Jul 2012 9:13 a.m. PST |
To build upon what 79th PA posted. By 1864 the strength of a Federal Brigade was to be maintained at 1200 men. Regimental paper strength was 1000, but brigades were being made up of 5 to 6 regiments. The 8th NY heavy Artillery was fielded as a brigade. The army returns for the fall of 1864 list regimental strengths for some regiments at less than a 100 men. During the Petersburg campaign, the US 2 Corp last the only set of colors taken in enemy action, when an entire regiment was captured (87 men). Although, Federal ACW regiments are not a good choice to view for effective vs. actual strength comparisons – as most did not receive replaces of any great number. New regiments where raised instead. Looking over morning reports for many regiments does give you an idea as to how many men were not with the colors. The number of men assigned to detached duty, sick in hospital, in custody of local authorizes, etc is surprising. From what I can determine the number averages out to about 30% of the men on roll are not present for duty. |
| Rod MacArthur | 06 Jul 2012 11:25 a.m. PST |
During the Napoleonic Wars, most British battalions sent overseas to a combat theatre were established with either 1,000 or 1,200 rank & file (corporals & privates). The number of battalions on the 1,200 establishment increased dramatically during the wars. However the average field strengths (again R & F only) were just over 600, and these include many with the Field Army but "on detachment" (ie not actually serving with the battalion). Rod |
| Grifflux | 06 Jul 2012 2:04 p.m. PST |
One other thing to bear in mind when looking at the NW Frontier is that field forces were made up of detachments from several battalions. Sources talk about 200 men from the XYZ battalion without really detailing the specific makeup. My best guess is that each 100 men would be the effectives of a double company (and such pairing seems to have pretty common in practice). Clive |
Lion in the Stars  | 06 Jul 2012 3:03 p.m. PST |
And I just got an email back from my active-duty army buddy:
At our worst we were about near 25% company casualties of some sort or another, but take that in consideration I was operating at near 70% authorized strength anyway.. we had some rough times. Quite the understatement in that last sentence! Wow. sorry, this is just mind-blowing to a Sailor who came back with every single person he deployed with! So taking to the field with only 50% of your strength wouldn't be that unusual
My mind, it is blown. Makes it cheaper to build the field forces, though! |
ge2002bill  | 06 Jul 2012 4:10 p.m. PST |
When runing a campaign with historical numbers of soldiers on detachment, in hospital, on leave (officers), deceased, replacements and invalided home, it is best to do these things lightly. Otherwise units will be too numerically weak to have good game or sequence of games. I would worry about wrecking the campaign which is a hard enough thing to keep interest up with players in the best of times. --- Der Alte and I will be doing these things "lightly" in 1808-1813 Iberia when we get more into our campaign later this year. The same will hold true when we restart the Seven Years' War in 2013. (We've been at it for seven years already you see. Time to start over.) --- Ditto for General Pettygree's fictional NW Frontier attrition rates. Historical attrition would have made his Field Force so atrophied as to render it impotent and a lot less fun. But! To each his own. --- Respectfully, Bill --- I read Churchill's The Malakand Field Force in early 2011. Fascinating book with tons of detail we can use for gaming. I just finished Churchill's The River War with almost similar benefits. His remarks about cavalry patrols, screens, dismounted action and the famous charge of the 21st Lancers held my acute attention. |
Lion in the Stars  | 06 Jul 2012 5:00 p.m. PST |
I haven't decided whether to write the shenanigans in Baluchistan as a campaign with attrition and getting people back from the hospital, or whether I'm going to assume 375-400 men per battalion and call it good! As an amusing side-note, 1:5 figure ratio would let me use Ambush Alley pretty much as written, with the 'unit of maneuver' being companies (of 10 models)! |