"What about a new board for Pre-Columbian era?"" Topic

Not sure if there would be a better choice of catagory but seems to me we have enough postings to cover Indians up to 1890.

Although many are covered under the wild west board, and there is the ACW board that covers battles during that time period.

I think Pre-Colombian covers it pretty well.

"The pre-Columbian era incorporates all period subdivisions in the history and prehistory of the Americas before the appearance of SIGNIFICANT European influences on the American continents, spanning the time of the original settlement in the Upper Paleolithic period to European colonization during the Early Modern period."

"While the phrase "pre-Columbian era" literally refers only to the time preceding Christopher Columbus's voyages of 1492, in practice the phrase usually is used to denote the entire history of American indigenous cultures until those cultures were conquered or significantly influenced by Europeans, even if this happened decades or centuries after Columbus's first landing. For this reason the alternative terms of Pre-Colonial Americas or Prehistoric Americas are also in use. In areas of Hispanic America the term usually used is Pre-Hispanic."

VR
James K. Mattes

There are currently 208 message boards, one more won't make much difference I suppose.

…seems to me we have enough postings to cover Indians up to 1890.

Certainly one of my main interests.

But most of the posts are about Indians interacting with Euro-Americans, usually militantly, as allies or foes. These posts are comfortably housed in the existing boards for those eras: SYW, ACW, Old West, etc. We don't get that many posts about pre-contact Indian cultures. Maybe because these cultures are literally pre-historic, so that we have little information about them compared with our historic-era neighbors.

On the whole, I don't support another board.

I have no problem with more broads.

seriously, adding specifice Boards has increased the discussion in that period. I would say that adding an Amercian Revolution has increased the number of AWI topics.

A "First Nations" board would get my support. Lots of great figures and interesting culture out there that may get lost in the chatter on more Euro-centric boards.

Messsages about Aztecs, Mayans et al are spread over half a dozen boards, as their "tech level" in some ways pre dates their actual point in time. No one knows where (when?) to post.

Good idea, lets have one.

…and by the time the poll actually runs, we'll know if the Mayans were right or not…

Not particularly my area of interest, but I might take a look to see what's happening.

What the heck. More *time periods* I will support. Not more rule-specific boards.

I think it interesting enough for a separate board.

Would be interesting to have another board for less researched areas for pre-discovery sailing as well. Such as Africa and the Pacific Rim.

I support it.

Good focal point for evertyhing from the Mound Builders to the Tawantinsuyu Empire.

I think I'd hop on board (no pun intended). ^^^ I was thinking of Mound Builders as well.

I am definately on board with this. Would be quite interesting.

I'll support it!

The OFM writ

I have no problem with more broads.

This is a sentiment with which I wholeheartedly concur.

I like the idea of a First Nations board. People lived in the Americas for a good long time before Europeans showed up, they did some pretty interesting stuff, and it would be nice to have a board (or a broad, for that matter) where this could be discussed.

LT

I support it, whether "First Nations" or "Pre-European", but I'm not so fond of calling it "Pre-Columbian"…

Go for it, why not ? Coolio.

Although not a great fan of more boards this seems to have a point.
Where do P-C topics otherwise fit in?

Isn't pre-Columbian called "the middle ages"? We already have a medieval board that includes Asia; so why not the Americas?…

Not my cup of tea but what the heck, yes.

I guess I don't really care, but it means that lots of people won't notice the board and you'll get less traffic than if you put it into a popular board like Medieval Discussion.

Frankly, I've been surprised at the sudden proliferation of boards, and the needless splicing of topics. All it really means is I miss a lot more since I only have time to check the main boards. And it's enjoyable to stumble upon something you dont' know at the boards – whether it is a rules set or history.

besides, the editor already has a big enough challenge as it is and there's an obvious struggle to keep things organized according to a system.

I believe that a thorough overhaul of the boards is needed. TMP historicals should be arranged by period; that way no matter where in the world if it happens in the period, the board will be there.

Isn't pre-Columbian called "the middle ages"? We already have a medieval board that includes Asia; so why not the Americas?…

Not sure I see if you are supporting or opposed -- there is also a classical Asian warfare board, and you can crosspost to get greater consideration of your discussion.

I definitely support this, as pre-columbian topics are sprinkled all over a series of other boards.

This is one of my favourite eras, one that I actually know a little about. A few points:

James correctly says:

"While the phrase "pre-Columbian era" literally refers only to the time preceding Christopher Columbus's voyages of 1492, in practice the phrase usually is used to denote the entire history of American indigenous cultures until those cultures were conquered or significantly influenced by Europeans, even if this happened decades or centuries after Columbus's first landing.

The problem is that there really are only miniature figures with indigenous cultures that were in existence AT the time of European contact. For instance, there were many civilizations that rose, existed and collapsed in the Andes prior to the Incas. No one will make these figures as no one knows anything about them. We do know from their carvings that war was a constant companion to their lives. So yes, indigenous cultures go way back, but we are incredibly ignorant of them.

Doug asks:

Isn't pre-Columbian called "the middle ages"?

Yes, but only if you are considering Viking and "Skraeling" interactions. Which is something that is very poorly understood. What about Indian vs Indian combat? How much change in tactics and weaponry occurred between the years 800 and 1500 in the US and Canadian North East for example? These are things we know very little of. How do we wargame that without using identical sides?

Since Columbus landed in 1492 and Tenochtitlan fell in 1521, I'd consider the most interesting events actually occurring during the Renaissance, and then later of course.

…as pre-columbian topics are sprinkled all over a series of other boards.

When people ask about Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas (topics closest to my heart), it is always in context with combat against Conquistadors. No one wants to know about the "pre-columbian" development of the early Mayans. That they ask these questions in a "series of other boards" is because they are unfamiliar with the years spanning the Renaissance.

I'm with Pissant. An over haul is needed. And minimize the "Rule Boards", as that is a slippery slope.

No one wants to know about the "pre-columbian" development of the early Mayans.

I am. Absolutely love the era.

But I'm also realistic, and understand that the chances of getting my group interested in a wargame about Tikal v. Copan are slim to none, thus a Maya army is going to have to stay in the "projects I'll never get to" category…

I am. Absolutely love the era.

But I'm also realistic, and understand that the chances of getting my group interested in a wargame about Tikal v. Copan are slim to none, thus a Maya army is going to have to stay in the "projects I'll never get to" category…

Well, if you allow me to be pedantic again, Tikal vs Copan would be Classical Maya, not Early Maya. In case you do get to start this project, let me recommend the Outpost miniatures Mayans.

link

See bottom of page for beautiful painting by Xavier and Remi. Now according to Outpost these are Post-Collapse Maya taken from murals at Chichen Itza. I assume the Temple Of the Inscriptions which shows distinct Toltec Mexicanized warriors fighting the Itza Mayans. I don't see these figures in the ones Outpost has for sale. Also their Command figures are definitely Classical. I think you'll find all these figures look pretty good for Classical Maya.

Scott, good luck with the Tikal vs Copan game. Unfortunately, one of the biggest hurdles, at least for me, is the painting! It's like Samurai. Be prepared for some serious brushwork!

Well, if you allow me to be pedantic again, Tikal vs Copan would be Classical Maya, not Early Maya.

I'm well aware of that, thanks. I took the uncapitalzed "early" in the post I quoted as a general reference. If it means anything, we always referred to that era as "Pre-Classic" when I did my Field School.

I suppose if we want to get REALLY pedantic I should refer to "Yax Mutal v. Oxwitik" instead of "Tikal v. Copan." ;)

And no, I don't know how to fit the Yax Mutal "hair bundle" glyph into a post… ;)

And no, I don't know how to fit the Yax Mutal "hair bundle" glyph into a post… ;)

Lol.

Mmmm…….I'm using an iPad to type this. You'd think they'd have an App for that.

In 1/72:

link

The Caesar figures, in particular, are very nice & a new Aztec range is imminent.

Do it, do it, do it! Get rid of the silly specific rules boards, and add more period boards. I never know where to post Mound Builder or Viking "stuff".

A lot of support for this board, yet I do not believe it ever came up for a vote? Would like to see if created as I still do not know where to post certain periods. :)

Just assume Columbus was right and post it on the Classical Asian board.

Otherwise, my usual objection: I'm not sufficiently interested in matters Precolumbian that I'm likely to check a dedicated board, but sufficiently so I might check out a thread that appears under ancients or medievals. A dedicated board is thus likely to make the subject less visible to me.