"large beasts and monsters: lead or plastic" Topic

I know, I know: like most folks, I have both. Prefer metal, but there's lots not really available in metal, plus the cost of plastic is FAR less.

What led me to start this was a very reasonable request for a large sphinx to go with the Splintered Light Sons of Horus.

But I know from what David tells me that sculpting one large beast costs as much as several, and maybe more than just several, normal (human) sized minis.

So I'd like to see some discussion on the economic trade-offs, both from the manufacturer's standpoint and from the customer/gamers.

Hypothetically, suppose one giant sphinx equals 6, let's say, fantasy Egyptian characters -- mummy pharaoh, priests, heroes, anubis-headed warriors, etc. Yes, hopefully a range would include everything anyone wants. But small companies typically finance new sculpts out of current sales, and it may take several YEARS to complete a large range such as the wood elves. So it really is a trade-off; if you get the one big monster, somewhere down the line you DON'T get something else, and there's also likely a significant delay.

So with that in mind, and assuming one can get plastic monsters that will DO -- from the D&D Minis or such -- which would you want to see done NEXT (all economic decisions are made at the margin, "on the next one"): a large monster/beast, or several smaller figures in the same line?

Btw, I'm not asking just about fantasy Egypt; I mean in general, for whatever period/topic/range you are interested in.

I'd rather have the smaller figures if I can get a "in the same spirit as" figure from another range. If nothing like it exists, then obviously there's no choice in the matter.

From a manufacturer's point of view, injection-molded plastic is very expensive to start up. The fact that GW can afford to do it is largely a function of the fact that they've already paid off their injection molding machine and have the cash for cutting a mold.

For a company to start into that, well, you're looking at needing no small amount of capital.

As a gamer, unless the imagery of a particular model is iconic to this company (GW dreadnoughts, for example), I'd rather scrounge for a close approximation of a centerpiece than not have other iconic infantry.

Yeah, no way we'd ever tackle plastic production. But even in metal the opportunity cost of doing a large beast is substantial.

For 15mm there are lots of larger sized figure lines to choose from to fill this role. It is not too difficult to find a good large or giant monster figure from existing 25/28mm lines. For example, Reaper has at least one sphinx. The real gap is in smaller monster types, Splintered Light's new griffons are a perfect example. That is a niche where figures are almost impossible to find.

LOL I completely misread this title :-)

IIRC from my tour of the warehouse, there are 6 injection molding machines, each of which can knock out a two piece fresh sprue (a Land Raider or a box of troops) in around 6-8 seconds, totally automated until it drops in the bin to be taken to boxing. So that is like approx 3900 $75 USD avg. boxes per hour.

So yes, a huge investment but perfect for massive volumes.

Their metal casting is literally two casters just off the floor from the plastic injection molds. The storage space for the metal molds goes all the way back down the wall of the huge warehouse. Based on size and volume of space, plastic wins big.

Wrong board, Teppsta.

I would agree with Dante here, it is quite likely that some version of many really large monsters already exists as a 25/28mm line. If you are making something so niche that a suitable figure does not exist elsewhere, then I would think you would have to decide to make it based on significant related sales and requests.

Yep. Go with line troops, unless you know a suitable large monster simply isn't available from other sources. After all, how big is a "large monster"? It can be almost any size the player chooses, assuming it fits on the bases he uses.

I bought bat swarms from y'all for use with my 10mm Bo5A armies. I liked the look, and your work was a suitable and inexpensive alternative to the OOP line from GW. I've done the same thing for "special" large units of other beasties, etc. But I've discovered that the hardest things to find replacements for are the more unique line troops, like dwarf archers. So I believe it's easy for a monster from a different scale or different manufacturer to "fit" with the line troops. It's the special line troops that aren't so easy to find replacements for; if it's supposed to be the size of a man, it needs to be the same scale and similarly proportioned as the rest of the men in the army. As that's the trickier matchup to pull off, I suspect that's what your customers will appreciate the most.
(On the other hand, a smallish 15mm sphinx might entice me to make another "out of scale" purchase… )

I think I made the off-hand sphinx comment without any consideration of the actual production problems. On balance, I agree that several new infantry types are usually preferable to one giant figure, and there are probably suitable substitutes elsewhere. OTOH, I like it when something is 'true' 15mm and matches stylistically – it just looks better on the table.

Maybe as a compromise, a set of 'medium' sphinx: male, female, ram-headed, serpent/Sirrush of Babylon (?).

I like it when something is 'true' 15mm and matches stylistically – it just looks better on the table.

I think that this captures it well. If you want your sphinx or other large monster to be the size of a house, then plunder 25mm lines. But, if you want your sphinx to have a lion's body similar in size to that of a 15mm lion or other large animal, then you are out of luck. This is where the hole is in almost all 15mm lines.

Now that's the kind of suggestion that's dangerous. 'Cause a 15mm sphinx/griffon/whatever is solid gold as a giant form of the same beast for 10mm. Which means I would probably be tempted to buy it. Which is why it would be dangerous.

"Do not tempt me, Frodo! . . . Wait, that would go well with my Army of the South… oh, go ahead and tempt me."

Another option for large models would be resin. It is cheaper than metal at that size, and easy enough to cast yourself.

the resin-plastic used by companies like mantic and privateer is great for larger models, and smaller ones. They cost a lot less, weigh a lot less, have just as much detail, are easier to convert, etc. With the ever increasing cost of metals like tin, I can see more and more companies going to resin-plastic as the cheaper alternative.

I don't have any experience with the Mantic resin-plastic, but I really don't like the stuff Privateer uses. It's soft, doesn't cut cleanly, file well, and droops in the heat of summer.

Plastic every day of the week. Metal is just to heavy

Metal before plastic and plastic looooooong before resin.
But yeah, I'd take more line troops over some big beasty.

Ed over at Troll Forged has created a plastic-resin that can be spin cast. It looks like a great project and I am pretty sure he is taking work. The flexibility of plastic, detail of resin, and cheap price of spin casting metal. Would be worth looking into I think.