"Saxon Artillery, IX corps in 1809?" Topic

Would anyone know what the breakdown was (# of pieces, type/weight, organization) of the Saxon artillery in the IX corp in April/May 1809 (before June reorganization?) Or, where i can find it :)? All I know is there were 2 heavy and 2 light batteries in the corps artillery.

A quick google serch produced this:
PDF link

For a good read try John H. Gill. With Eagles to Glory: Napoleon and His German Allies in the 1809 Campaign.

Bowden, "Armies on the Danube 1809" lists for May 20 1809:

9th Corp Reserve Art (Gen de Brigade Mossel)

1st Saxon Battery, 1st Co. ()Bonniot), 4 8pdr, 2 6pdr How
2nd Co. (Hoyer), same as 1st

2nd Saxon Battery, 1st Co. (Coudray) same as others
2nd Co. (Hutsteiner), same as above.

I'm seeing that there are 2 heavy and 2 light batteries- each consisting of 4 8# guns and 2 8# howitzers (Gill). The distinction, according to Gill, being the weight of the pieces, not foot vs horse as in other nations…anyone know if the carrages/tubes were different? Can't tell from Summerfield, who skims 1809, and perhaps this is why!
While I like AotD by Bowden, his OOB's are not always accurate-In this case he lists the howitzers as 6#- I usually go by Gill… but am not sure what I'm looking at in this case, including the possibility that the # designations are different while the actual weight is the same aside from national measurement standards.

Sapherson, "A Year At War 1809" page 96 lists the guns of each of the four IX Corps companies as:

4 x 8lb, 2 x 6 pounc How.

On the other hand, on page 35 he lists the guns for the same Saxon companies as:

6 x 8lb, 2 x 4lb Howitzers

IX corps went through a reorganization in early June- I wonder if some of my confusion is due to just not knowing exactly what changed when. I'm pretty sure at this point that the howitzers were the Saxon equivalent of the French 6- for gaming purposes. The difference in number of 8# guns may have been due to reorganization- I suspect 4 per battery up to June, possibly 6 after, heading into Wagram?
Anybody know anything about the guns themselves as per heavy or light distinction above?

At the start of the campaign, the Saxon artillery was originally supposed to go with the Saxon troops, as follows:

sächsische Artillerie (18/876)
Kommandant Major Birnbaum
1. Division
schwere 8-pfündige Fuß-Batterie – Kapitain v. Hoyer – 4x schwere 8-pfündige Kanon, 2x 8-pfündige Haubitz
leichte 8-pfündige Fuß-Batterie – Kapitain Bonniot – 4x leichte 8-pfündige Kanon, 2x 8-pfündige Haubitz
2. Division
schwere 8-pfündige Fuß-Batterie – Kapitain Coudray – 4x schwere 8-pfündige Kanon, 2x 8-pfündige Haubitz
leichte 8-pfündige Fuß-Batterie – Kapitain Huthsteiner – 2x leichte 8-pfündige Kanon, 2x 8-pfündige Haubitz
Reiter-Brigade
reitende 8-pfündige Batterie – Premierlieutenant v. Hiller – 4x leichte 8-pfündige Kanon
Artillerie-Park 
Reserve-Artilerie – Major Tüllmann – 2 Geschützen
Train
Pontonnier-Detachement – Premierlieutenant Kühnel

As described in the linked source, the horse battery was something of an afterthought, and seems to have fought as a foot battery, apparently not trusting either the quality of their mounts or their horsemanship in action. The artillery pieces appear to be all of Saxon design and manufacture, and indeed they seem to have both a heavy and light version of the 8-lber gun. Perhaps Dr. Summerfield will stop by and provide some idea of what they looked like.

Hauptman A[lfred] v. Kretschmar
Geschichte der kurfurstlich u. königlich sächsischen feld-artillerie v. 1620-1820 unter benutzung archivalischer quellen
Berlin : E[rnst] S[iegfried] Mittler u. Sohn, 1876, S. 76
link

Oberstlieutenant Moritz Exner
Die Antheilhahme der Königlich Sächsischen Armee am Feldzuge gegen Oesterreich u. die kriegerischen Ereignisse in Sachsen im Jahre 1809
Dresden : Wilheim Baensch, 1894, S. 20
link

It would appear that the light and heavy Saxon 8-lber canons were quite different:

- weight of barrel : 1120 and 1600 pounds *
- weight of carriage : 1019 and 1173 pounds
- weight of limber : 524 and 550 pounds
- total weight : 2663 and 3323 pounds
* German measure

General-Lieutenant ‪G‬[‪erhard‬]‪ v‬.‪ Scharnhorst‬
‪Handbuch für Offiziere in den angewandten Theilen der Krieges-Wissenschaften‬
Hannover : Helwigsche Hof-Buchhandlung, 1815, 1. Th., S. 20
link
link

@Seroga

For the enthusiast like you, I like to draw your attention to following book

Hemman, Thomas : Der Krieg in Sachsen1809 dargestellt von Geißler und Sauerweid, a book on demand, numerous contemporary prints in colour, excellent value for money.

Most obliged for your excellent contribution, Seroga. I would assume the light 8lb guns had lesser range? Any of you artillery experts out there able to comment on that? Is it 'lesser barrel weight, lesser charge'?

What a perfect suggestion! Thank you ever so much.
For more information, our colleagues can look here ….

Google preview link
Discussion and index of plates link
WorldCat link and link

Hi everyone.
I'm trying to convert an artillery battery for my Saxon troops for 1809.
Have got Prussian 12-pounders by HaT and gonna repaint them as Saxons. But as was written above, Saxons hadn't any 12-pdrs in the filed in 1809, had they?

"I would assume the light 8lb guns had lesser range? Any of you artillery experts out there able to comment on that? Is it 'lesser barrel weight, lesser charge'?" – is this assumption by le Grande Quartier General right, what do you think?

I am not sure this helps, but the situational report for the 9th Corps on 1 June 1809.

Mike,
Not that page of the 'Situation'.
That only includes manpower and horses, designation if you are lucky. One can extrapolate from there, but its a guess.
An actual 'Artillerie Equipment' page should also exist in the full report.
I was only ever dealing with 'Cartons' of loose documents (referenced care of Bowden/ Tarbox etc.) and therefore not as structured as your discoveries of cahiers ;-)

On the current question (updated OP)- 8 year old research info may not be accurate. Many issues get overturned and this could be one.
I'm no artillery expert, but the existence of multiple weapons seems for an 'allied' army improbable, with the exception that ammunition supply was more reliable. Did the Saxons really take on French arms when their own artillery was, by reputation, good as Prussian etc?

The aspersion that some moral consideration as to their effectiveness is merely conjecture and should be ignored without evidence.

Allies, were in large parts, not used as main attack forces by Napoleon in the European theatre, so the limited exposure of a horse battery could be equally explained away.
Regards d

Very nice, do you have also the situation reports for infantry and cavalry as well, and also for different days, the Saxon infantry started initially with a regiment of two battalions but then converted to a one battalion regiments and out of the Schützen two battalions of light infantry were created which then were eventually converted into a permanent regiment.

The Prince de Ponte Corvo ordered at the end of May that the foot battery von Hiller was converted into a horse batterly of 4 guns, 3 light 8 pounder guns and 1 howitzer, the gunners were mounted onto train horses and drilled as good as possible however the battery had a bad reputation , there the horses weren't suitable for riding and the gunners had no idea of it.

Luckily the horse battery did not take part in the earlier clashes and came into fire, first time at the battle of Wagram

source

Jörg Titze
Das sächsische Artillerie – Koprs
Die Geschichte der reitenden Artillerie 1802 – 1809

books on demand

otherwise I recommend to look at the book of Exner, see ling provided by Seroga, so far I cannot see any 12 pdr guns.

Useful info on Napoleonic Ordnance Weight and Range Tables from Napoleon Series: Smoothbore Ordnance Journal PDF link

von W,

Not the take over the topic, but anyone who is interested I posted the whole C2 675 Grande Armee Juin 1809 that you can take a look at on the Napoleonic Discussion Forum. link

IX Corps Juin 1809

Michael

thanks, for whatever reason it is easier to copy this easier from here, wonderful documentation.