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"The Baggage Train - Huns" Topic


6 Posts

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378 hits since 24 Jun 2012
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Comments or corrections?

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2012 9:26 p.m. PST

Of possible interest.

link

Amicalement
Armand

tadamson Supporting Member of TMP25 Jun 2012 8:10 a.m. PST

why have they got shields…

:-(

JARROVIAN Supporting Member of TMP25 Jun 2012 8:28 a.m. PST

Why would they not have shields?

Lewisgunner Supporting Member of TMP25 Jun 2012 12:25 p.m. PST

Indeed, what is the evidence for or against shields? I don,t think that there is a single safe depiction of an armed Hun. Neither can I think of much literary reference that is specific about Hun shields. There is a mention in Agathias iIRC of Huns leaning on their shields. That has been used to suggest that the Huns were infantry.

tadamson Supporting Member of TMP28 Jun 2012 5:39 a.m. PST

Roy, you are naughty (Agathias indeed) :-)

There are no depictions that I'm aware of that are definitely 'Hun' (ok one rock carving in Hungary, very reminiscent of earlier Rouran, horse armour pointed helmet, long lance, no shield) but there are lots of them for assorted nomads from the general area and time frame. Working on the presumption that the bulk of the 'Huns' were Turkic speaking nomads and that the various 'probably Hun' burials are also representative we have horse archers with sword (one or two edged, straight), composite bow (separate bowcase and tube quiver), lots of knives, and most of them with a long, two handed lance. A fair number would have armour as well.

Agathias calls them "hoplitai", and Sozomenus earlier describes a Hun leaning on a long shield. These are seen by most of your contemporaries as evidence for Gothic infantry (a core part of the Hunnic grouping at various times)

The lifestyle, wagons, tents, weapons and tactics are frighteningly uniform across tribes, clans and confederations; over huge distances; and a long time span.

That said, individuals would probably pick up assorted Roman/German/Celtic kit as well. Plus 'samaratising' Huns may have used more horse armour, though the lack of bow armed opponents would lessen its use.

Tom..

Lewisgunner Supporting Member of TMP02 Jul 2012 12:35 p.m. PST

OOOh Tom, Where could we see a picture of the rock carving from Hungary??
Its very difficult to prove a negative so it is tricky for those who believe in 'no shields' to make a definitive case. If you are an armoured contuse wielder with a bow and maybe javelins as well then a shield might be a bit more kit than you fancy carrying. However, Maurice's Strategikon describes Roman cavalry who are modelled on A sciatic types (Huns, then Avars) as having lance shield and bow so it is perfectly possible. I don't know that non lancer cavalry of the period that are bow users (Maurice's middle ranks) are shieldless either.

Anyway a ref to your hun would be very welcome.

Roy

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