"Political Views & TMP Membership" Topic

This matter has come up in another discussion, and I am raising it here for further consideration.

Can someone's political views be grounds for expulsion from TMP? Or in other words, are some political views so heinous that the TMP community would not want to be associated with them?

Or, on the other hand, is TMP (and the hobby) a place where all wargamers can meet, regardless of their political views?

For example, you can argue that someone who holds a racist ideology does not belong on TMP. Or you could argue that racism is deplorable, but it doesn't matter at the gaming table.

How about we don't start any witch hunts?

I'm sure I've gamed against a racist or two over the years.
That being said, as long as they are not spewing it here, we have no say in what they think or believe!
Your job is to put an end to such venom if it is spilled upon this site.

I know plenty of racists that use TMP.
They have the good sense not to broadcast those views.
I think that is how it should be.

I don't care for racism of any sort, if you wish to ban such people that is your call, I would not be sad to see them go.

Many of the people I have stifled have expressed racist and or sexist views.

Depends how loudly they broadcast their views and what those views are. What I don't know doesn't hurt me. I have to say, apart from the odd ignorant comment here and there, I haven't really noticed. I do avoid the Modern boards now though. Getting a bit extreme.

Make a rule for the forums about this and enforce it.

Since politics is supposed to be limited to the Blue Fez, isn't this a moot point?

BTW – I'm far more likely to put up with objectionable views on a forum than at my gaming table. I don't associate with racists in the flesh in my home, but I recognize their right to share public spaces, real or virtual, with me.

Since Bill is the manager of this joint, its up to him to decide what kind of joint it is. If we don't like his decision, we don't have to hang out here.

Shawn.

Views held are not actionable. Views expressed are. And even then you will run into the problem of different levels of sensitivity.

Since we cannot discuss politics here, we cannot know the political views of any member, thus noone can be banned for their political views.

How about donīt ask and donīt tell? But really, I think Security Minister Critter and Ambush Alley hit the nail on the head- since politics is a taboo subject, we should all be in the dark as to the evil that is lurking in the souls of our fellow TMPers.

I recommend always reserving the right to censor offensive content (to include using the DH), but not expulsion just because you know that somebody harbors offensive opinions.

What a person thinks is a private matter, but what a person posts on TMP is subject to the Editor's choice. I just get on TMP for the hobby. For politics, or anything else, I can find other online places if I choose.
Thank you for asking.

Since politics is supposed to be limited to the Blue Fez, isn't this a moot point?

Seconded. We don't need any more controversy here, we do just fine on our own.

since politics is a taboo subject, we should all be in the dark as to the evil that is lurking in the souls of our fellow TMPers.

If someone uses their real name as their TMP membername, or lets it be known who they are, then connections can be made to their political activity in real life. This has actually happened on TMP before.

Oops, maybe I should change my profile!

Why would I ever be exposed to someone's political views on TMP?

As a reader, I can stifle people if I find them offensive for what ever reason (and do). As Editor though, I think Bill has the right to ban people if he sees fit to do so. Based on my experience here, I doubt it would be often or without cause .

Well banning someone for views expressed outside TMP is surely a matter for YOU AS EDITOR/OWNER as its YOU who is in SOLE charge of memberships on this site.

Ah, The CA boards, gone but not forgotten!

I think if someone has the hobby of loudly trumpeting that they are a National Socialist, and especially if they become disruptive, I think it might come down to a judgement call. Personally if someone spouts racist or objectionable comments, I might just stifle them, not because I'm a delicate flower, but because such a person now becomes beneath my attention. That being said I almost never stifle…almost…

Damon.

Oh, good Lord.
Is religion next?
The cars we drive?

For the record I think with an agenda to destroy civilization as we know it.

This matter has come up in another discussion, and I am raising it here for further consideration.

Good Gawd….WHY?

Can someone's political views be grounds for expulsion from TMP? Or in other words, are some political views so heinous that the TMP community would not want to be associated with them?

Which politicial views would that be? Radical Leftist/Liberalism? Radical Right? Fascist? Someone who wishes for the "good old days" of Colonialism? Someone who is melancholy for the "good old days" of Rhodesia instead of Zimbabwe?…Hardcore supporters of the IRA?…Dixiecrats?…Southern Baptists Conservatives? Log Cabin Republicans?
Who would make the list of "which views are the evil ones?". What would be the deciding factors? Historical Evidence? Current Social Interpretive Flow? Political Correctness?

Or, on the other hand, is TMP (and the hobby) a place where all wargamers can meet, regardless of their political views?

Yes it is…for now…until the brownshirts take over…

For example, you can argue that someone who holds a racist ideology does not belong on TMP. Or you could argue that racism is deplorable, but it doesn't matter at the gaming table.

Honestly Bill? Look at my avatar….
I'm a prime target for it…and have been ON THIS VERY SITE!

On this very site, I have been called "a stalker", and "A racist"… I've had certian folks on this site "insinuate" that I am a member of the Klan, or a White Supremicist, and/or that I am a racist because of the flag avatar.

I've also been called a racist because think skinned nitwits felt that I was being "racist" towards Africa, and Africans by my creation of Bongolesia. I was called a racist because of my "Treatment of Bongolesians"….

I've also been called a stalker, and (according to my sources on another site), have been given all sorts of nicknames in the past such as "stalker boy", etc…for something I've never done.

You eliminated the CA board and created the Blue Fez for political and religious issues. That's where it should be.

I know that in the past there used to be a member of TMP known as "Wolfslair Models", who was just a little "too into Nazis" for most peoples comfort and even discussed building a concentration camp model at one time.
While I found his politics disgusting and my hatred of Nazi Ideology is pretty blatant, I ignored his politics but didn't ignore his bad taste in subject matter. I was glad to see him go, as I was BME, because of his toxicity.

If you want to start setting up parameters for "accepted political beliefs" I can tell you right now that mine probably would not be "accepted"…And if you wish to instigate this policy, please let me know as well as others, because if this happens, I will with pretty much certainty be sending my "adios" message to everyone here.

And as for kicking people out of a hobby site because of their political beliefs, then
after that you can start with "accepted religious beliefs" , and then move onto "sexual preferences", and finally "skin color".
If your going to "suddenly start" determing that "certain political views" are grounds for expulsion from TMP, then how are you going to justify having them on TMP in the first place, BEFORE this was brought up?

TMP is a site for gaming, and discussion of such, and has no need for any of that other bovine excretement that seems to pop up in big steamy fresh t-u-r-d piles every 8-10 months…

Enough of it already….

Go Gettem Murphy! LOL!

With a world wide following it would be best to keep politics out of bounds.

I must protest the icon used by Murphy although I was not the least bit offended until he pointed it out thereby making me feel oppressed and put down because I'm not really that into NASCAR….

No comment (at least, not any that wouldn't get me
DH'd).

Hmm, all this ruckus and only one person in the Dawghouse. Something's wrong here.

I'm 100% with Murphy on this one.
Folks: We cannot legislate good manners. That's what stifles are for.

Political views are best from a distance.

I don't often agree with Murphy, but in this case I'm 100% behind him.

As the old saying goes…."I disagree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!"

Good Gawd….WHY?

The idea being it's better to have the discussion preemptively, rather than talk about it in the middle of chaos due to people being offended by having a political extremist as a TMP member.

So, Murphy, is there anyone so politically extremist that you would argue they should not be a member of TMP? Or are you willing to accept everyone?

There is no such thing as a moderate political view. They are all radical.

Since NO political views belong on TMP, it shouldn't matter what any member thinks

As Charlie Brown would say, 'Oh good grief!'

The only issue obvious to me relating to this, is that web searches for a person who has expressed extreme views may result in TMP popping up, thus associating TMP with whatever crap the given person might spue.

I suspect that these instances would be quite rare, and wouldn't warrant a specific policy, so much as simply require Bill to consider and address those instances when needed.

Adopting a rigid policy about people who may be offensive elsewhere, or for thoughts unrelated to the hobby creates an environment for unnecessary actions to be taken, similar to instances of zero tolerance policies that we encounter in schools and whatnot.

Well, maybe if the actual Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot or others of there ilk were here and spouting their beliefs it would be an issue. Actually, no it wouldn't because you'd Dawghaus them for speaking about politics, right?
Personally, I'd like to see less self inflicted drama and damage to TMP based on purported democracy. Lets forget about non gaming polls (related movies and tv shows or books are ok) or other unrelated crap and stick with the gal that brung ya. I, along with several others have been spouting this belief for years. Yet somehow, TMP wants to deviate from this and then surprise! All hell breaks loose because it's over something not game related. I know about the Naps board but we have to live with that. We don't have to live with the other unrelated things.

Yeah, this was mainly about the OFM situation so sue me. Besides, why don't we address the serious bad call that was the OFM poll and worry about things that may or may not be an issue somewhere in the next year or never.

Thanks,

John

Shouldn't this be on The Blyue Fezzy ????

Is this thread just an attempt to distract us from the train wreck that is already going on?

The idea being it's better to have the discussion preemptively, rather than talk about it in the middle of chaos due to people being offended by having a political extremist as a TMP member.

The question then being dear Editor is the question of "Who is it here that considers what is "political extremism"?

Example, on my facebook I have made the announcement that .

Does this make me a political extremist? In a way yes. I'm espousing revolution. One that we in the US can have every four years, and it doesn't require gunpowder and blood pouring in the streets.

How are you going to keep people from being "offended" Bill? You don't want them offended on this site by what they may consider political extremism?…So what do you say when you get some member that says "Conservative's offend me and anyone that says anything about Christianity offends me…and anyone that talks about the rights of the people offends me….and anyone that is Pro-Life, offends me…." and so on, and so on….where does it stop Bill?

So, Murphy, is there anyone so politically extremist that you would argue they should not be a member of TMP? Or are you willing to accept everyone?

A straw man question Bill, but I will answer it this way. "If you come to a wargaming site, to discuss games, painting, terrain and scenic building, gripe about cons, GW price increases, buy and sell on the market, Rant on TMP plus, laugh your ass off at Alex's stories on "Tales from Work", and are a positive member of the wargaming community, and can act like a grown adult with a rational mind and not be a disruptive frothing at the mouth jackwipe, who poisons site with bad manners, rudeness, and overall stupidity….then yes I will accept you."

See Bill I look at it this way. You've written on the FAQ, "no politics on TMP"…now I know that is not going to happen, but it's kept under a pretty tight rein and we have the Blue Fez, to wax all things political. If people break the rules here, they go to the DH.

If we have a person that comes to the site and then becomes a blabbering slobbering idiot, and start spouting off things like "We should finish what Hitler started.." or "All blacks in the US should be shipped back to Africa"..then we already know the following about the person.
1: They are a prejudicial bigot.
2: Their heart is full of poison.
3: They're immature.
4: They're not a well educated in history as they would like to think they are.

But most of all, people here are generally smart enough to understand that this mentality around here will not be tolerated. He'll collect stifles, and end up DH'ed a lot and finally get locked out for numerous rules violations, like BME did… You won't have to "ban him" for his extremism… he'll do it through his own stupid actions.

So in short, the answer is "If they can be a positive member of the site and not disrupt it, I don't really give a flying flip WHAT their political beliefs are…" Now that doesn't I am going to be willing to have them around the same game table, simply because many times I've found political extremists and me to be on opposite ends of the spectrum…and our personalities just clash.

Besides, it's a web site… if I don't like what the guy has to say, I can always use the stifle button, or more likely….just ignore him….you also have a complaint button I do believe…

Besides…. you being the editor… shouldn't you be on the lookout for such things before it gets to the viral meltdown level on this site?

There's my answer Bill…and for everyone else…

Oh and by the way….to let everyone know…

I AM A POLITICAL EXTREMIST….

So yeah…call me a political extremist…

Politics is Blue Fez material, those who break the rule should suffer the consequences. Posting blatant racist crap on any forum should be grounds enough for expulsion. It has no purpose in a modern society.

As for politics in general, again, go to the Fez.

Oh man, haven't had this much fun here in a long time. The A&A forumini started banning people who's political views were too 'extreme'. Before you know it people from all sides of the political aisle had 'extreme' views and needed banning, because the ruling junta decreed it so…

No Politics, No Religion. Toy soldiers. Go to the dawghouse if you can't figure it out. Done.

A well mannered discussion is always welcome on nearly any topic, but well mannered discussion of politics and religion is rare!

and

The old rule from the mess and the lodge should apply here – gentlemen do not discuss politics or religion in either venue.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you don't like reading something someone has written bloody well don't freakin read it! Act like a man and stop getting butt hurt over something written on the Internet. I could care less what someone writes until I want to respond to it, and even then I'm not going to get butt hurt over it. TMP was pretty great back when we had the CA board I really loved slugging it out with people, you know what? I was adult enough to but it aside and war game with those people at Cold Wars, Historicon and so on and have a good time and drink beer with them. I really don't know how some of you function in the real world.

Whats this got to do with wargaming