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"Band of Brothers - Nuenen Scenario" Topic


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Vice Admiral Rolland Inactive Member07 Jun 2012 12:13 p.m. PST

Watching Band of Brothers last night I came across the episode 'Reinforcements'.

Elements of Company 'A' and Company 'E' hopped onto British Cromwell tanks and headed NE out of Eindhoven, to test enemy strength east of Hells Highway. They encountered German Panzer forces near Nuenen, and were turned back. The episode featured some of the best action seqeunces in the series (imho) which got me thinking that this would be a great setting for a scenario!

I'm curious to know whether anybody else has played out this scenario, the forces involved etc etc.

Also whether any other examples of combined ops with Brits and US forces in Normandy 1944 exist!

Cheers

mjkerner Supporting Member of TMP07 Jun 2012 1:03 p.m. PST

Good episode, though they were Shermans, IIRC, and the "wonder" shot against the "MG 42" with the mortar or rifle grenade (forgot which) where the first shot takes it out, was a little annoying. (Shouting "MG 42" or "Panzer Mark IV" or whatever the exact nomenclature of the weapon that has them under fire and that they want taken out occured repeatedly in BoB and Private Ryan to the point of distraction and irritation for me.

YMMV

jtkimmel07 Jun 2012 1:10 p.m. PST

Yup, I ran this a couple times at Historicon 4 or 5 years ago using Arc of Fire in 28mm. Though I altered the forces based on what 28mm figures and vehicles I had, for example, I only had 2 Cromwells so substituted a 4th Sherman (the column of tanks in the episodes looks like 3 of each).

I also had the Germans roll randomly to see if they got the JagdPanther or the StuG III to support the Tiger. All three was way too much firepower in the playtests. I'll have to see if I can dig up the files on my computer.

whoa Mohamed07 Jun 2012 2:06 p.m. PST

Did not fight in WW2 mind you but Iding the weapon that has you under fire for destruction by supporting weapons seems like it makes sense to me…and there were several MG42s that gave them a bad time one in a window (taken out by a first shot) and one on a roof behind an eve or chimney brace that took several shots…

Jemima Fawr07 Jun 2012 10:41 p.m. PST

I've played the historical version. It was 'A' Sqn of 15th/19th Hussars (armoured recce regiment for 11th Armoured Division, which was seconded to 101st Airborne Division) that provided the tanks. They were equipped Cromwell and Challenger.

Their job was to mount a recce in the direction of Nuenen (which lies northeast of Eindhoven – to investigate reports of German movements in that area. They ran into the left-flank-guard for Panzer-Brigade 107, which was advancing from east to west, to attack the Allied bridge at Zon.

German forces would probably therefore have comprised a mixture of Panthers with relatively raw crews and armoured panzer-grenadiers. Panzer-Brigade 107 also had an armoured flak company with Sdkfz 251/21 and a platoon of panzerjaegers – described variously as StuG IV and Jagdpanzer IV. They might also have had the remnants of SS Kampfgruppe 'Richter' attached – Jagdpanzer IVs from 10. SS-Panzer-Division 'Frundsberg'.

In reality the Hussars/Easy Coy Group bumped into the Germans and withdrew. The Hussars suffered no loss.

The TV episode mixes up the action at Nuenen with the later action at Koevering, which was on the other side of Hell's Highway. At Koevering, Easy Company was supported by a squadron of 44 RTR from the independent 4th Armoured Brigade, which was equipped with Sherman II and Sherman Firefly. At Koevering, a strong battlegroup of Fallschirmjaeger, backed up by a platoon-sized unit of Jagdpanthers and some other ersatz armour, including Panzerjaeger 35R(f) and StuG III B, attacked eastward from 's-Hertogenbosch and succeeded in cutting the corridor. It was in this battle that the conversation between Sgt Martin and the British tank commander took place. 44 RTR lost several tanks to the Jagdpanthers.

There are numerous other examples of US and British troops fighting together:

1. 44 RTR and the 506th fought alongside each other again during Panzer-Brigade 107's second attack – this time against the bridges at Veghel.

2. The Grenadier Guards and 82nd Airborne fought together in the streets of Nijemegen, while the Irish Guards provided fire support for the 82nd's assault river crossing to the west of the city.

3. The Notts (Sherwood Rangers) Yeomanry from 8th Armoured Brigade supported the 82nd Airborne in their defence of the Groesbeek Heights. The SRY and 82nd Airborne got along like a house on fire; the SRY reckoned the 82nd to be the best infantry they'd ever fought with, while the 82nd Airborne declared the SRY to be the finest armoured unit in the ETO. The SRY was even awarded a Presidential Unit Citation for its efforts. The 8th Armoured Brigade (comprising the SRY, 4th/7th Dragoon Guards and 13th/18th Hussars) later supported the 101st Airborne Division on 'The Island' and in the winter, supported a US infantry division during the assault on Geilenkirchen.

4. A US infantry division (104th?) was attached to I Canadian Corps late in 1944 for the drive north from Antwerp. Canadian, Polish and British armour all provided support to them during this period.

5. 29th Armoured Brigade (detached from 11th Armoured Division) was forced to postpone its Comet training in December 1944 when the Germans launched their counter-offensive in the Ardennes. The brigade picked up its old Shermans from a depot in Brussels (where they had been stripped of all sorts of kit, such as MGs and radios) and marched straight to the Ardennes, where they launched an attack on Foy-Notre-Dame, in support of US 10th Armoured Division, on Christmas Day 1944.

6. A squadron of 141 RAC from 31st Tank Brigade (equipped with Crocodiles) was sent to support the US assault on Brest during the summer of 1944. Their flamethrowers proved decidive in persuading the defenders of the citadel to surrender.

7. If you want 'British' infantry supporting US armour – the Belgian Brigade supported a US armored division (7th?) in offensive operations in the Rhineland during November 1944.

8. The 5th Royal Irish (Inniskilling) Dragoon Guards, from 22nd Armoured Brigade, 7th Armoured Division, supported the attack by 101st Airborne Division on the town of Best during the last days of Operation Market-Garden.

9. The 6th Guards Tank Brigade loaned a regiment of Churchills to the US 17th Airborne Division during the breakout from the Rhine bridgehead in 1945.

Dynaman878908 Jun 2012 4:24 a.m. PST

> and the "wonder" shot against the "MG 42" with the mortar or rifle grenade (forgot which) where the first shot takes it out, was a little annoying

The book makes mention of them doing just that on more then one occasion. Other instance was the attack in the bulge if I remember correctly. I forget who exactly was singled out but the book mentions him by name and said he did this. With the book having been written decades later and recollections being what they are…

NigelM Inactive Member08 Jun 2012 5:28 a.m. PST

The Battleground Europe volume 'Hells Highway' by Tim Saunders has excellent info on this and other actions which can be used to create a scenario.

link

Jemima Fawr08 Jun 2012 5:51 a.m. PST

I second Nigel's recommendation for Tim Saunders' superb book, as well as the accompanying volumes on Nijmegen and The Island.

A couple I forgot:

10. The Coldstream and Welsh Guards also provided support to 82nd Airborne Division while the Grenadier and Irish Guards were engaged at Nijmegen. The Grenadiers later had to drive back south, to re-open the road to Veghel, which had been cut by Panzer-Brigade 107.

11. 79th Armoured Division provided 'Funny' support in the form of Kangaroos, AVREs, Crocodiles, Crabs and Buffalos, to a number of US formations throughout the winter of 1944/45.

Personal logo 14th Brooklyn Supporting Member of TMP08 Jun 2012 7:11 a.m. PST

Yup, I ran this a couple times at Historicon 4 or 5 years ago using Arc of Fire in 28mm. Though I altered the forces based on what 28mm figures and vehicles I had, for example, I only had 2 Cromwells so substituted a 4th Sherman (the column of tanks in the episodes looks like 3 of each).

I think it was earlier. I was the British tank commander in your Saturday game in the Hosts theatre room in 2005 (even though I am German, but I did not want anyone asking me to speak with a phony Nazi accent). It was great fun and something I have remembered ever since. Although the best part was the face of one of the German players when I commented that a German commander would bever have had his troops mounted as tank riders in such a situation. He asked me what I would know about German tactics and I showed him my German passport! evil grin

Vice Admiral Rolland Inactive Member11 Jun 2012 10:04 p.m. PST

Plenty of food for thought here – many thanks to all contributors who have posted. Must get my hands on that Tim Saunders book.

Jemima Fawr12 Jun 2012 12:52 p.m. PST

Don't just get the one get the trilogy to put into context. At the monment they're all going for £5.00 GBP each (new) on amazon. You can sometimes pick all three up very cheaply as a bundle.

number420 Jun 2012 8:07 p.m. PST

"(Shouting "MG 42" or "Panzer Mark IV" or whatever the exact nomenclature of the weapon that has them under fire and that they want taken out occured repeatedly in BoB and Private Ryan to the point of distraction and irritation for me."

Second that! It reduces the historical aspect of the action to the level of a play station game. Allied soldiers universally called any German machine gun a 'Spandau' or simply 'machine gun', while a tank was a tank and a really big tank was a tiger.

jtkimmel23 Jun 2012 12:34 p.m. PST

Sorry about the delay, I finally was able to dig up the files from the Arc of Fire game I ran back in 2008 it looks like.

I took pictures from one or both games and posted them
link
The photos at the end of the set are of the overall town layout from the playtests. Buildings are mostly MBA, vehicles are mostly Corgi and Solido. Figures are mostly Battle Honors.

The Tiger started in a camo'd fuel depot and couldn't move until it spotted Allied armor (picture 2225 in the flickr set).

The game basically starts after the Lt gets hit by the sniper so the Paratroopers are already dismounting and deploying. Two squads are setup 2 moves from the tanks, 2 squads are setup 1 move away and 2 squads are at the tanks.

Terrain

Woods do no block LOS, individual trees provide cover to one man

Stream provides cover for infantry, tanks and wheeled vehicles will bog if they enter

Walls
- High walls connected to church are hard obstacle and block LOS
- Other walls are low and cost card to cross, provide cover and concealment

Buildings all buildings are stone, visibility inside buildings is 6"
- Rubble areas next to buildings are rough ground

British Armor is under orders to avoid damage to civilian property, they need to spot a target themselves or have an infantry spotter on the tank before they may fire at a building

jtkimmel23 Jun 2012 12:34 p.m. PST

German OOB

1x Grenadier Squad (TAC 5)
1x Squad Leader with MP40 Morale 4
1x Asst. Squad Leader with MP40 Morale 4
1x Gunner with MG42 LMG Morale 5
1x Asst. Gunner with Kar 98K Morale 5
4x Rifleman with Kar 98K Morale 5
2x Rifleman with Kar 98K and PF Morale 5

Sniper Team (TAC 5)
1x Sniper with scoped Kar 98k Morale 5
1x Spotter with Kar 98k Morale 5

Panzerschreck team (TAC 5)
1x Panzershreck Gunner Morale 5 Ammo (d6+2) ___
1x Loader with Kar 98k Morale 5

MMG Team (TAC5)
1x Team leader with MP40 Morale 4
1x MG34 Gunner Morale 5
2x Loader with Kar 98k Morale 5


Tiger I (TAC 5) [Long 75mm to 88 Flak, 2 LMG]
1x Commander Morale 4
4x Crew Morale 5

Reinforcements

1x PanzerGrenadier Squad (TAC 5) may enter mounted on Sdkfz 251/1
1x Squad Leader with MP40 Morale 4
1x Asst. Squad Leader with MP40 Morale 4
1x Gunner with MG42 LMG Morale 5
1x Asst. Gunner with Kar 98K Morale 5
3x Rifleman with Kar 98K Morale 5
1x Rifleman with Kar 98K and PF Morale 5

JagdPanther (TAC 5) [Long 88mm to 105mm, 1 LMG]
1x Commander Morale 4
4x Crew Morale 5

1x PanzerGrenadier Squad (TAC 5) may enter mounted on Sdkfz 251/1
1x Squad Leader with MP40 Morale 4
1x Asst. Squad Leader with MP40 Morale 4
2x Gunner with MG42 LMG Morale 5
2x Asst. Gunner with Kar 98K Morale 5
2x Rifleman with Kar 98K Morale 5
2x Rifleman with Kar 98K and PF Morale 5
Sdkfz 251


StuGIIIG (TAC 5) [75-76mm Guns to L60, 1 LMG]
1x Commander Morale 4
4x Crew Morale 5

Reinforcements
Turn 3 PanzerGrenadier Squad (may be mounted on Sdkfz 251/1)
Turn 4 JagdPanther
Turn 5 PanzerGrenadier Squad (may be mounted on Sdkfz 251/1)
Turn 6 StuGIIIG

jtkimmel23 Jun 2012 12:37 p.m. PST

Allied OOB

Troop A Guards Armored division
Cromwell with 5 man crew (TAC 6) Morale 6 Smoke Mortar Smoke Rounds (d6-2) ___
Cromwell with 5 man crew (TAC 6) Morale 6 - Smoke Mortar Smoke Rounds (d6-2) ___
Sherman with 5 man crew (TAC 6) Morale 6 - Smoke Mortar Smoke Rounds (d6-2) ___

Troop B Guards Armored division
Sherman with 5 man crew (TAC 6) Morale 6 - Smoke Mortar Smoke Rounds (d6-2) ___
Sherman with 5 man crew (TAC 6) Morale 6 - Smoke Mortar Smoke Rounds (d6-2) ___
Sherman with 5 man crew (TAC 6) Morale 6 - Smoke Mortar Smoke Rounds (d6-2) ___

E Company, 506th Parachute Regiment, 101st Parachute Division

1x Company HQ (TAC 5) [black]
1 Captain with pistol Morale 4 (exceptional)
2 NCO's with SMG Morale 5
Jeep

Sniper Morale 5
Spotter Morale 5
1 Rifleman with pistol Morale 5
Jeep

1st Paratrooper Squad (TAC 5) [red]
1 Squad Leader with M1 Morale 4
1 Asst Squad Leader with SMG Morale 4
3 Rifleman with M1 Morale 5
1 SMG Morale 5
1 LMG gunner (30 cal) Morale 5
1 Loader (with carbine) Morale 5

2nd Paratrooper Squad (TAC 5) [blue]
1 Squad Leader with SMG Morale 4
1 Asst Squad Leader with M1 Morale 4
3 Rifleman with M1 Morale 5
1 SMG Morale 5
1 Bazooka gunner Morale 5 Ammo (d4+2) ___
1 Loader (with M1) Morale 5

3rd Paratrooper Squad (TAC 5) [Green]
1 Squad Leader with SMG Morale 4
1 Asst Squad Leader with M1 Morale 4
3 Rifleman with M1 Morale 5
1 SMG Morale 5
1 Bazooka gunner Morale 5 Ammo (d4+2) ___
1 Loader (with M1) Morale 5

4th Paratrooper Squad (TAC 5) [Yellow]
1 Squad Leader with M1 Morale 4
1 Asst Squad Leader with SMG Morale 4
3 Rifleman with M1 Morale 5
1 SMG Morale 5
1 LMG gunner (30 cal) Morale 5
1 Loader (with carbine) Morale 5

5th Paratrooper Squad (TAC 5) [Purple]
1 Squad Leader with M1 Morale 4
1 Asst Squad Leader with SMG Morale 4
5 Rifleman with M1 Morale 5
1 SMG Morale 5


6th Paratrooper Squad (TAC 5) [Orange]
1 Squad Leader with M1 Morale 4
1 Asst Squad Leader with SMG Morale 4
4 Rifleman with M1 Morale 5
1 SMG Morale 5
1 BAR Morale 5

Jemima Fawr23 Jun 2012 4:56 p.m. PST

I'm just wondering why you'd want to do the game of the film rather than the game of the battle?

There were no Tigers, Jagdpanthers or Guards at Nuenen – they were ust what the film director had.

The British were also not under specific orders not to destroy civilian property beyond normal SOPs that had been in place since Normandy. And if you'd seen what we did to Normandy…

Simo Hayha28 Apr 2013 7:54 p.m. PST

is anyone still interested in this thread? or doing this battle?

Howling Mad Murdoch Inactive Member13 Aug 2014 1:40 p.m. PST

Hell yeah!

It's got my two fave tanks, Cromwell and a Tiger. What's not to like?

Will need to convert to my rule set as I don't play Arc of Fire though.

Jemima Fawr26 Aug 2014 3:09 a.m. PST

There were no Tigers at Nuenen. Only Panthers and possibly StuGs or Jagdpanzer IVs.

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