"Some moral advice needed." Topic

I have always been a fan of the old Torchlight Fantasy Products resin dungeon scenery that was produced c. 1983-84 and have spent the last few years trawling around for pieces. I've got to the point now where I've got a reasonable collection but still insufficient for my needs.
My question is this: is it acceptable for me to make moulds of the originals and cast copies for personal use?
Please bear in mind that I have no wish to make any financial gain from this operation and would be more than happy to make a monetary contribution to the original sculptor if anyone knows his whereabouts.
Regards HGA.

if it is no longer made, then yes.

The first rule about recasting on The Miniatures Page is that you don't talk about recasting on The Miniatures Page.

It'll get you 30 days in the Chokey. (Did I use that right?

Since you ask, you've presumably done some research on this – five minutes with a search engine turns up this:

link

Assuming it's accurate, the rights belong to an unnamed businessman in Texas. Tracking him down and offering him a payment would be the appropriate thing to do, but it's likely to be a chore since the sale took place back in 1986. He might even be willing to sell the line to you, since it appears he's done nothing with it in all these years – but the molds are unlikely to still be viable, and the gods only know what condition the masters are in.

Since there does appear to be an established owner, recasting them without his approval is not okay. Being out of production is not grounds for doing so – I have several resin kits myself that OOP right now, but that doesn't mean I'd like to lose future sales on them to people who decided to recast rather than wait another few months. Admittedly, after 28 years Mr. Nameless is unlikely to care the way I would, but he still spent money on them way back when and deserves some consideration. At the least you should try to locate him – and that might work out well for both of you if he (or his heir, quite possibly) sells the line off and gets it back into production.

OTOH, it appears that others are less scrupulous, as that same search turned up someone talking about recasting and reselling the kits:

link

You could save yourself the effort of recasting if he carries through with that and simply buy from him. Still illegal and probably even more morally dubious since cash is now trading hands – at least with doing it yourself you've got the "personal use" argument – but it does get you an extra degree of seperation to salve your conscience if it's bothering you.

Having looked at the range in CLR's link, I think anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of modelling techniques could make their own sections in a similar style. They are pretty basic.

That too. Easy enough to make your own and cast them, and no sticky ethical questions or laborious efforts to find a (possibly dead) Texan. :)

If you have to ask, you already know the answer.

If you are a fan, I suggest trying to find the guy and making him a (low) offer for the rights. You can then farm out the casting, get what you want and own the ultimate collectible: the rights! Even sell them off when you have enough.

I bet if you really dug into it and started to ask everyone in Texas someone would know. Not sure but even the state's business records might hold the answer, as well as trademark rcords.

Yeah, you could do it yourself and no one would probably know or care, but think of the service (and FAME!) you'd get by bringing them back to light!

"if it is no longer made, then yes."

Wrong answer, dude!

Thanks for the advice & guidance gentlemen, despite fairly extensive enquiry it seems that both the original sculptor & Texan buyer have disappeared of the face of the earth. What does surprise me is that no-one in the gaming fraternity has been able to pinpoint who these characters are given that we are after all a fairly small community.
I have taken tentative steps toward creating some masters of my own but my free time is limited so progress has been slow. It would seem though that this might be the ethical way to proceed.

Or, since you are not planning on selling, go ahead and make the molds and cast the pieces. If the owner ever turns up offer them reasonable compensation for the pieces you made.

"I have taken tentative steps toward creating some masters of my own (…)"

That's the way to go. Plus, you can put in extra details you've thought of that the other stuff didn't have….

What would Jesus do:)

Why do you think you need the permission of any here to proceed in any way you wish? Do, or do not. It's your decision, make one. If you really want to complicate things continue to ask for advice from this lot.

Yeah, don't listen to "this lot" who advocate not stealing from other people.

Gentlemen, Many thanks for all your input. I am taking advantage of the Jubilee weekend to make forward progress with my own masters. You just wouldn't get these opportunities in a republic :)

Be carefull!

Morals has nothign to do with it. Legality has everything to do with it.

As my father-in-law used to say "Where there's a will-- there's a relative."

You really have to go to a lawyer to examine what are the rights of intellectual property and how long they last. In some cases (film I believe) it can be 50 years PAST the death of the owner) and with literature or art, the writer or artist.

Now this is wargams and I don't think that you're going to, ten years from now, get hit with a huge lawsuit-- but. It also makes absolutely no difference that you have no intention to sell or distribute these, it can lead to legal trouble. A simple visit to a lawyers involved in property and copyright would be far better than asking here.

Much as I distrust attorneys, I reccommend talking with one first. In this day and age, folks will rip you to shreds and rob you blind if there's a ghost of a chance.

Do too much to be safe, tather than not enough.

"I bet if you really dug into it and started to ask everyone in Texas.."

Wouldn't that take a while?