"Bavarian Schuetzen" Topic

My Bavarians are all post 1811, when the organisation shifted to echo the French system. I've only seen the following calculations for the 4 company (early organisation).

4 company organsiation with a total complement of
-720 men
of which
-144 light (the whole lot called Schuetzen)
of which
-20 rifle armed

Assuming that the proportions didn't change when they shifted to 6 companies, this is just 1 rifle armed guy in my 36 man battalion.

After 1811, I seem to remember that the Schuetzen were brought together in one company. So I would have 1 rifle armed guy in my 6 man Schuetzen company. (everyone green tufted.)

I use skirmishers for these battalions: 6 men, based in pairs for every three battalions deployed. I guess that the same proportions would obtain here, so the screen would consist of 1 rifle armed guy and 5 with muskets (or perhaps with carbines?).

Do light battalions have the same number of Schuetzen as line?

From 1811 the regimental structure was 2 battalions with battalion Line and light made up of 6 companies (as per the 1809 organisation) for line the structure was Grenadier (150), Jager (150), Fusilier (150 x 4). Light structure was Carabinier (150), Rifle (150), Fusilier (150 x 4). Depot battalions were of 4 companies. In 1813 the light battalions had 3 companies, the first company containign the converged elites. The landwehr btns had 4 comapnies.

In 1814, a new unit the Grenadier Guard unit was formed from the grenadier comapnies taken from the line btns. These replaced the missing grenadier companies with a fifth fusilier company.

I hope this helps.

Thank you MM.

Line: Grenadier (150), Jager (150), Fusilier (150 x 4).

Were those Jaeger armed with rifles?

With such evidence being light (and my German woefully inadequate) and scattered to the four winds I cannot give an absolute answer on this now, but I would suggest you have the elite companies armed with rifle in line and the light battalions. The majority in line and light battalions should be armed with musket.

In 1813 a number of Freiwillige Jager Battalions were formed and all men in those battalions were armed with rifle.

Think of rifles (even in Germannic states) as being uncommon.

In answer to your last message I would go for yes on the wargames table.

Thank you :-)

The Bavarian Army was re – orgnaised at 29th of April 1811, now a battalion had 6 companies, in three ranks, 1 Grenadier, 1 Schützen and 4 Füsilier company, two battalions formed a line regiment.

when a regiment was formed in line the two flank companis were Schützen, then the grenadiers and then the Füsilier companies.

The third rank in the Schützen companies was armed with rifles, a copy of the Austrian Jäger Stutzen, Richard Knötel gives a good plate showing such a Schützen, here another plate not by Knötel, showing a Schützen in the second rank.

and here from Cantler

I am not aware that so many volunteer Jäger Battalions were formed all armed with rifles – maybe Marcus Maximus can give a source.

@ Chortle – you're welcome.

@von Winterfeldt, apologies, as I said previously the sources are scattered. It would be great if someone could bring it all together in a more concise publication compared to what we have today at our fingertips, the illustrations you have provided are a great example. I like those, can you get these free online now? Otherwise I guess it's hunting down Eltings 4 volume set of Napoleonic Uniforms which is like the holy grail with holy grail prices.

Sources used for the info. above: Otto von Pivka 1976, 1979, R.Johnson 1984, Haythornthwaite 1973, 1979, 1995, Hofschroer 2001, Castle 1998, Nafziger 1992, 1994, 1996, Bowden 1989, Gill 2008, Brett-James 1970, Leggiere 2002, Kannik 1968, Funcken 1969, Hourtoulle 2000, to name a few.

For the reference regarding the Freiwilligie Jager Battalions IIRc I believe it's from Osprey Napoleon's German Allies: Bavarians.

Hi,
For more info Check the bavarian Army Museum

link

Greetings

Neil,

I am in the middle fo building this army in 15/18mm. For a 24/32 figure battalion I have:

4 Grenadiers Red plume
4 Riflemen green plume
16/24 Fusiliers with command

Very few makers have them with a rifle in 15mm, Napoleonttes use to, AB does not, they interchange Line with lights so all have bayonets. I guess you can always cut the bayonet off. I have a few that the bayonet broke off so I will use those figs for my skirmisher base.

That link doesn't work for me…..Can you recheck it please Rudi, thanks.

I have fixed it now Rudi.

link

Fredloan,

Very few makers have them with a rifle in 15mm, Napoleonttes use to, AB does not, they interchange Line with lights so all have bayonets. I guess you can always cut the bayonet off

The first image VW posted above indicates a Schutzen with rifle and bayonet attached – so it shouldn't really be an issue. The difference is clearly in the length of the firearm itself.

npm

@Marcus Maximus

Visit Markus Stein's home page

napoleon-online.de

Here you find the complete Candler – for example and a lot of more.
Don't waste your money on volume 4 on Knötel Elting, much better stuff is available for free online, in case you like to invest some money go for :

Stein, Bune, Gärtner : Die Bayerische Armee 1806 – 1813, Zeughaus Verlag, Berlin 2011

In case you like to see how the Bavrians really looked like – google Kobell especially his battle painting about Polotsk, here an example

Superb paintings, with extraordinary detail. Thank you von Winterfeldt for the info. on the uniforms and where to get them. Time to brush up on my pigeon German…

I trust the references were ok regarding the rifle jager battalions?

I did find in Münich, page 256 about Stutzen or riflex
At the formation in 1811 every Schützenkompanie of the line received 80 Stutzen (rifles) and that of a light battalion 40 Stutzen for the 3rd rank. Only those who were armed with Stutzen were allowed to carry a powder flask / horn.

About the Jäger of 1813 I could find only vague information, a Jäger corps was formed and only those were were trained to shot would carry the rifle, see also the text in Candler to that, so seeminbly only in the Schützen company.

source

Münich : Geschichte der Entwicklung der bayerischen Armee seit zwei Jahrhunderten (1618 – 1870)München 1864, reprint Krefeld 1972