"How Often was Canister Actually Fired?" Topic

In reading an old thread here about the effects of canister, a thought hit me:

Would artillery really fire canister anytime the enemy was within effective canister range? I doubt they would.

Canister only made up something like 10% of the shot available to each gun during a battle, so wouldn't the artillerists conserve it for repulsing a direct attack?

That would mean artillery would be employing roundshot at relatively short distances as long as the enemy was occupied fighting other infantry or cavalry.

Does this "limited use" of canister sound right?

According to Osprey "Artillery Equipment of the Napoleonic Wars" French 8 lb gun had 77 shot and 30 canister rounds. It also mentions other nations and the proportions are similar. So 10% is too small.

On the other hand, I'm sure they reserved rounds for defense and didn't always seek out long canister range like wargamers do. If we had to count rounds we'd fire most of the time from beyond canister range.

Canister wasn't just defencive it was offencive to..

I've read sevral acount of horse artillery riding with in 250 yards of enenmy and firing canister at them in support of infantry attack

So we might say that some targets of opportunity warrented the use of precious canister rounds, but certainly not every enemy that entered canister range, right?

If I were a gunner, it would be as little as possible!

That being said, those crazy horse gunners would as noted bounce close to the enemy before letting loose

In most solo games I play, I limit canister to the 30% mark stated above. I too read that was a normal allocation. That said, I take it further. An artillery company starts off with 'x' amount of ammo, and I use an inconspicuous brown marker with a number stamped in white. Not sure where I got those, but they came in handy. At each turn of firing, the company uses up 2 points. If it moves and fires, or manhandles, it uses up 1 point.

With artillery, it the only roster I tolerate until I figure something better. I record how many ball or canister rounds were expended.

Finally, when low an ammo, our good captain best be looking for a caisson to top up his supply. Once he's at zero, he's done firing.

When resupplied, he gets topped up to the 70% ball, 30% canister ratio. This sounds fiddly, but it's not. The artillery can't/doesn't blaze away at long range for long, as causing minimum damage and exposing his company to threat if he runs out, is apparant and rendered unlikely. Same with canister. It becomes judicious firing.

Actually, that's about a 40% ratio of canister.

For Russians 1811-1815

The standard provisioning of rounds was as follows :
-- per 12-lber gun (8 in a heavy foot company) : 120 ball, 30 cannister, 10 incendiary
-- per 24-lber unicorn (4 in a heavy foot company) : 80 shell, 30 cannister, 10 incendiary, 10 star
-- per 6-lber gun (8 in a light foot company, 6 in a horse company) : 140 ball, 30 cannister
-- per 12-lber unicorn (4 in a light foot company, 6 in a horse company) : 80 shell, 30 cannister, 10 incendiary, 10 star

For an Infantry division (1 heavy foot and 2 light foot companies), the resulting distribution of a total 6520 rounds was:
-- 49% ball
-- 29% shell
-- 17% cannister
-- 5% incendiary & illumination

For a Cavalry division (typically 1 horse company), the resulting distribution of a total 1800 rounds was:
-- 47% ball
-- 27% shell
-- 20% cannister
-- 6% incendiary & illumination

The unicorn gunners might additionally keep a few "non-regulation" ball rounds available for special occasions.
The cannister rounds were indeed employed whenever an unprotected target was within range.

See link

According to Senarmont's after action report of the artillery action at Friedland in June 1807, his thirty-gun battery fired 2516 rounds, 368 of which were canister in thirty minutes against the Russian center and against a cavalry counterattack on the left flank.

As they were not out of ammunition at the end of the action, I would suspect that canister made up more than 10% of the basic load.

And Napoleon ordered that there would be 350 rounds per gun on campaign all of which was 'on wheels.' A further 240 rounds per gun would be in the forward depots.

Sincerely,
K

According to Decker, the Prussians increased the amount of canister. Recall, the Prussians had two canister rounds, one with smaller balls and another with larger balls.

The original 60 rounds were 3/4 ball and 1/4 canister; this was changed to 2/3 and 1/3, respectively.

See Decker's Die Artillerie für alle Waffen of 1816, vol 2, page 33 (the example has all three volumes bound together with vol 1 – Die reine Artillerie, vol 2 – Die angewandte Feldartillerie & vol 3 – Die Belagerungsartillerie)

link

The French also had two sizes of canister-smaller and larger iron balls packed in sawdust.

It is noted, along with the test of the canister rounds, in DeScheel.

Sincerely,
M

Is this something an army (or division) commander would actually worry about? It seems to me that this is a job for he battery commander.

What were the smaller balls made of ? I remember reading I think they were made of lead and often they deformed slightly when fired therefore causing their trajectory to wobble in flight.

It is a job for the battery commander, but gamers routinely push guns into canister range because they want to get more hits. So guns end up firing more than half their rounds as canister.

Just like give a gamer 10 inch musket range vs enemy 9 inch and he will move within 10 inches and fire. You only see stuff like that in reality with specialized sharpshooters like the Rifle Brigade or Berdan's rifles.

How do you stop a-historical artillery tactics without keeping track of ammo?

I don't and every one is always looking to push the guns into canister range.

Canister balls were sometimes made of lead, but that was found to melt on firing into a larger mass and then didn't function as designed. Because of this all types of canister was made from iron.

Sincerely,
K

It is a job for the battery commander, but gamers routinely push guns into canister range because they want to get more hits. So guns end up firing more than half their rounds as canister.

Sounds like standard operations for a Horse battery to me…

I think your regular artillery may be too mobile if the non-horse batteries are pulling that stunt.

Tables that don't model terrain well, and rules that don't model fatigue and ammo expenditure well, for artillery aren't usable, in my book.
All three limit what artillery could do, and will define what it's best to do.
Games that model all three well make artillery the most challenging arm to deploy and use effectively, in my opinion.

I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time in the heat of battle a battery commander expended all his cannister/grape shot and was left to fire roundshot into the charging cavalry. Do any rules take these sort of things into account?

Also its so frustrating when opponents measure and re-measure for firing and movement and then measure some more 'just to make sure'. Where's the lottery of battle in this scenario.

Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I want to make artillery more realistic in our club's new rules and this is good stuff.

I would think that cannister was over supplied in the standard issue.

I would want to always be sure to have some cannister available to save my guns and line from an attack from the enemy and being overwhelmed.

You are not going to lose your army and empire by being out of cannonballs to inflict long range damage on the enemy.

You could lose your arym and empire by not being able to beat back the enemy's battle-winning attack.

this makes sense to me.

Hi there

Uruk said

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time in the heat of battle a battery commander expended all his cannister/grape shot and was left to fire roundshot into the charging cavalry. Do any rules take these sort of things into account?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well there's the key, how often did it happen and cause a problem; if all, there's no need for it to be in your rules.

regards

David Brown

Hi there

Seroga said

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-- per 12-lber unicorn (4 in a light foot company, 6 in a horse company) : 80 shell, 30 cannister, 10 incendiary, 10 star

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Are their any contemporary batle accounts for the use of the illumination rounds?

Regards

David Brown

(the Bleep in my last post was b*g*er all, that a court in Oz has found not to be offensive)

deformed slightly when fired therefore causing their trajectory to wobble in flight

Given the windage (the space between the projectile and the bore) of smoothbore Artillery of the Blackpowder era, all rounds 'wobbled' in flight. Given the range in which you would expect to fire canister 'accuracy' wasn't of real concern. If you needed to fire it, you were going to hit the targets.
;o)
If the target was deep, (advancing massed columns of infantry or Cavalry) it wasn't uncommon to fire roundshot and canister together, (either in the same tubes or some guns firing canister and some roundshot) thus getting the canister playing on the lead elements and roundshot ploughing through to the deeper / supporting troops.

If the target was deep, (advancing massed columns of infantry or Cavalry) it wasn't uncommon to fire roundshot and canister together, (either in the same tubes or "snip"

Well you learn somthing new here everyday!
Anyway I'm relieved to find we haven't all been guilty of over using Canister and that wholesale rule changes are not required.