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"Rene ii duke of Loraine" Topic


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pete1719 May 2012 1:37 a.m. PST

Hi does anyone know what the the Coat of Arms for Rene II Duke of Lorraine would be in 1476?

I can find what they were in 1480 however they don't appear to have been so complex earlier. Unfortunately my understanding of heraldry is so poor that I can't work it out for myself.

Any help would be appreciated; thanks in advance, Pete

Marcus Maximus19 May 2012 2:37 a.m. PST

Try this:

link

and this:

link

I hope this helps.

Swampster19 May 2012 4:11 a.m. PST

link goes directly to Lorraine.

Nice site, MM, I haven't seen it before.

Patrice19 May 2012 10:42 a.m. PST

Interesting.

It looks very complicated. Apparently he did not inherit the title of king of Jerusalem, etc, before 1480, so his earlier Arms should be much simpler.

Yes Swampster your link is interesting. Although I am not sure of what happened between 1473 and 1476.

I find that René II's father, Ferry II de Vaudémont, had the Arms of Lorraine with a blue lambel:
link

Logically, René II would have inherited these Arms in 1470.

However he inherited other lands, and it is said that when his mother inherited Lorraine from Nicolas d'Anjou she passed it to him. Arms could have been passed too:
link
or at least the Arms of Lorraine (without the blue lambel)…

It is also said that he had the cross of Lorraine on his banner.

pete1721 May 2012 10:12 a.m. PST

Hi, thanks for the replies. Rene's arms are interesting as the sources appear to agree with what they looked like in 1480 but there's no representation; at least any that I can find of his arms during the Swiss wars.

however I have found this link:
link
hopefully being from a site of heraldic artists the bloke who painted it will know his stuff. cheers Pete

Swampster22 May 2012 11:17 a.m. PST

link shows a design with the arms of Rene _I_ which it says are from c. 1466-78.
I'm not sure about the link which Pete put since in 1477 he hadn't claimed or inherited some of the titles shown on the shield. He apparently didn't claim the Kingdom of Naples nor Jerusalem until after 1477, so I wouldn't expect to see these on the shield yet these form the top of the shield. His grandfather, Rene I was also stil Duke of Bar, which is the bottom right as you look at it.

link has some coins which might help. The first shows only the arms of Lorraine. The second shows Lorraine impaled with the arms of Bar, so I think this is post 1480.

I'm inclined towards him carrying the simple arms of Lorraine in 1477.

pete1723 May 2012 12:52 p.m. PST

French Wikepedia suggests these arms in 1473:
link

might have to just settle for these, cheers Pete

Swampster24 May 2012 1:52 p.m. PST

I think those are the arms of his grandfather, Rene I, who claimed the throne of Naples which Rene II didn't do until later.

The small shield in the middle are the actual arms of Lorraine and I'd be tempted to just have Rene II carrying those. The other arms represent other areas which Rene I had title to and which Rene II eventually claimed but not in 1477.

pete1727 May 2012 1:36 p.m. PST

Hi Swampster, I took your advice as I'm sure the arms of Lorraine would have appeared somewhere alongside Rene and his knights. here's a link to the completed flag:
link

cheers Pete

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