"Composite grenadier battalions in Iberia" Topic

I have tried google and to search here but to no avail, however the question is why did these continue after the practice seems to have stopped elsewhere?

cheers
jon

In my opinion they were an elite shock component, and would have been found wherever the Guard, or Oudinot's Grenadier Division were not.

npm

There were French composite battalions at Fuentes and Barossa in 1811, but I don't recall seeing them in Peninsular orbats thereafter. None at Salamanca (1812) or Vitoria(1813). There could have been some in the Eastern theatre, but I'm pretty sure there were none at Castalla, so possibly 1811 as a cut off?

Yes, as npm, when an elite unit was called for, either at the tactical or operational level- leaving aside Oudinot (1805-7 only)and the Guard. Usually a conglomeration of 4-6 elite companies per bn detached from the more experienced regiments present in the army order of battle. Sometimes a formation du jour if needed, no doubt. If you see less of it later in the empire it is pobably due in part to the need for those experienced companies in the parent regiments.

Albuera pehaps?

As DAF suggests, there were two composite grenadier battalions at Albuera. I believe, these were formed, not by detaching the elite company from the field battalions present at the battle, but by using companies from battalions on garrison duty etc. This was similar to the method of the formation of Oudinot's grenadiers during the 1805-07 period, so it didn't dilute the actual field formations.

In Italy,during the 1809 campaign, Eugene formed combined voltigeur battalions to act in his advance guard. I'm not sure whether these were culled from field battalions, or taken from rear formations – I think it may have been the former, as they seem to have appeared, then disappeared from the orbats.

At Schevardino, in 1812, Compan's division formed two combined voltigeur battalions to act as light battalions. Compan's division was attached to Murat, in the army advance guard, but it had no integral light regiment, so the creation of combined light battalions seemed to be a practical necessity.

In Eugene and Compan's situations, these were combined light battalions, used in advance guards. This is different to the Grenadier battalions, that were essentially elite shock formations, formed in the absence of any other elite army components, and meant to deliver the coup de grace in an engagement.

npm

I've been digging into Spanish doctrine for South America and one of the core jobs of the grenadier company was to cover the retreat should the battalion fall back or withdraw. Perhaps (I don't know – I have only a general knowledge of French doctrine) they were increasingly needed for this role as the French situation in Spain deteriorated?

Hi,
Originally (1805-) Oudinot's elites were really elite, I believe, grenadier and Carabiner coys detached from active line and legere Bn's- (I would be glad of other evidence, this has always been a confusing formation :)
In 1807 everything changed. I have a link to Nafzinger below:

link

…Oudinot's, originally formed for (not from) the Armée des Côtes de l'Ocean. This drew the grenadier/carabinier company and 1st fusilier/chasseur company (2 of 9, leaving 7) from regiments that were NOT a part of Côtes. Each regiment of 3 battalions (the 3 active Bn's)therefore formed an elite battalion, the battalions were paired up to form divisions… This appears to be the best info I can find??

npm is right about the combined bn,s in Spain Not being from parent Rgt's on the field…