"When you sacrifice a unit, do you feel a pang of guilt?" Topic

We played a Princeton AWI game a few weeks ago.
I threw the "detachments" unit behind a fence to slow the Yankees down, giving me time to scurry into the urban mess of Princeton. I felt a momentary pang, but it was based on the victory points I would lose for that unit. I had no qualms about throwing Highlanders and dismounted cavalry to the wolves. Awfully callous of me, wot?

HOWEVER! They had a morale test, and ROUTED! They ran back to me where I gratefully rallied them, and let them into the town to provide "rear support".

Do you ever feel guilty about throwning good men away in a good cause?
Or, good men in a bad cause.
Or…

no, they are only toys.

I could see it happening. I could see myself regretting a move like that.

no, they are only toys.

But think of the lost … victory points!

In some of my past games, I've used HMGS to fire into my own hexes filled with my troops to kill enemy soldiers engaged in close combat…when I was asked "You DO realize what you are doing!?" I said "They're my men…they understand."
In another game of the Texas War for Independence in a "What if?" battle, I was General Cos, and took two wild daring shots with my cannons at the Texicans in defensive positions. Unfortunately I had to shoot through my own troops….The GM reminded me of this and the possible losses. I looked at him and said "They are my men…they understand what needs to be done."
I was lucky and none of my men died, and I actually blew Col Travis out of the bell tower and won the game! Viva Mexico!

In battle I am their commander…they know what they are there for…they know what is required of them….they'll understand "why" I must sell their lives so quickly and cheaply….and to quote Napoleon…"One drunken night in Paris will replace these losses…"

Yes I am cold hearted SOB and I don't feel guilty….

I'm sure that the units out of the line of fire cheered! :)

No.

Cornwallis fired through his own men at Guilford Courthouse didn't he? Figuring his men has the discipline to handle it, but not the rebels.

I felt a pang of guilt only once. We were doing Borodino on a grand scale and my beloved Vistula Legion was assaulting the south redoubts in the mission the Poles historically got. After being repulsed time after time I looked at the shattered regiments and felt the loss. Just that once. The rest of the time I know they are toys. However, I never sacrifice a unit for VPs, only when it seems the reasonable necessity.

No

"To be a good soldier you must love the army, To be a good commander you must be willing to sacrifice that which you love."

They knew the risks when I painted them.

All my Figs are my Babies and I always feel bad when I have to sacrifice for the greater good. Guess that's why I keep losing.

"They knew the risks when I painted them."

Now that made me laugh.

Thank you uruk hai

Well as you said, they were Highlanders, so no great lose.

Some must die that others may live !

I sacrificed an entire brigade of cavalry in dismounted action last night to hold up a German infantry Corps.

Yes, I did feel bad about it, but their sacrifice saved half the BEF from envelopment and destruction. I did pull back their sister brigade after they suffered heavy casaulties, as losing two brigades seemed like carelessness…

Don't they all go to lead/plastic heaven anyway?

uruk hai for the win!

Rick

To paraphrase MG Smith at Ft. Donnelson, "You men volunteered to die for your country, now come up here and get killed!"

Interesting point. When you have a pang of guilt for such actions, you seem to be getting into the role as the army commander. I suspect most commanders have at least a pang of guilt (probably far more than a pang!) when they order real people into the fray.

I try to play like a real general and try to minimize my casualties while inflicting the maximum casualties on the enemy. I will not do the "end game rush" because there is only one turn left. I might order a unit to perform a heroic stand while the rest of the army regroups.

I have sacrificed skirmishers in ancients games to draw the enemy out of line. Works best when the enemy is impetuous and you have heavy cavalry waiting to pounce….

I still recall an ACW game where I was down to my last unit,facing slaughter in any case,so I had them charge. Surprisingly,the charge was successful,not only forcing the enemy back,but to a full-on rout,and a victory for the North(whom I was playing at the time.)

I just say "For The Cause, boys." And send them to die.

Until such a time as someone invents realistic fragging rules; no.

"Cornwallis fired through his own men at Guilford Courthouse didn't he? Figuring his men has the discipline to handle it, but not the rebels."

No he did not. That myth promulgated by Harry Lee and taken up by many others has been disposed of in the following book:

link

Sometimes there's a momentary pang, but it's usually theatrical and involves movie quotes "Let 'em have a taste of it, the rogues!"

Ditton re: the Cornwallis myth.

when I was playing FOW with my departed (sold) red army, I felt guilty if I lost more men than the germans. Guess I couldnt handle the responsibility (or the truth). I had ONE commissar for the whole battalion. He was always the hero in all my after battle reports and never resorted to murderous practices to get the boys moving. I always felt that a good commissar leads, not directs. I really really really wish I had NOT sold that collection. It was beautiful, now its someone elses 'beautiful'. Farwell commissar Pankonick, and to you colonel Misha Streczov and your staff. ………… dang, I'm feeling a sudden urge to buy 400 dollars worth of soviets.

No he did not.

Of course he did! History is always written by the victor. Last I checked, Cornwallis was not on the winning side.

Yes, specially when it's an elite unit or even individual (Ex Davy Crockett and Tennesseans). When they have to rush in to reinforce and know they'll die trying…I'm getting misty eyed *swallow*.

If I lose my Perry militia too early in a game well my life is in tatters! Usually.

One book never derailed a myth.
Once it is accepted as Truth, it cannot be killed.

I am embarrassed to say, yes.

Not in the least. They are lead and plastic and come back to life for the next game anyway.

I have only one regret.. that they have only one die roll to give.

On a side note, I appreciate 'Commands and Colors' punishing you for throwing away your skirmishers and other light troops – everyone is special and has something to contribute.

What was that about losing Highlanders?????? Bite yer tongue, laddie!

If I felt a pang of guilt at losing a unit, I'd have hung myself years ago,…with my record!

As Patrick Harper (Sharpe) would say… you're a Murderin' Officer not a Killin' Officer

As a servant of the Horned Rat, I say… Soldiers die in droves. Did you win? Who cares?

rabbit

No, John, I don't.

My troops glady throw themselves into the fray and trust my judgement implicity.

They are lead figures, not real people. They will magically reappear in a future game. I just hate for them to rout off the table instead of holding out to the last man. It is disappointing when the best painted units die early.

Since I tend to play British that's what the Scots & Irish units are for and I never feel any guilt.

Death or Glory for mine!

As for the VP – a few more down the drain make little difference to the way I lose games.

Not in the least. They are lead and plastic and come back to life for the next game anyway.

Ahh yes. Zombies!