"Early imperial vs late republican Romans" Topic
13 Posts
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Fireymonkeyboy | 23 Apr 2012 6:11 p.m. PST |
Hi, Just considering a trade, don't know much about Romans, what would distinguish troops for a late republican (Caesar / Pompey) vs EIR army? Thanks, FMB |
Defiance Games | 23 Apr 2012 6:15 p.m. PST |
Marian (Late Republic) Romans would be in chainmail with either the montefortino or coolus helmet – EIR are traditionally depicted in segmented armor with the later helmets
although in "real" history there was a real mix in the EIR period. |
French Wargame Holidays | 23 Apr 2012 6:33 p.m. PST |
a number of changes 1.the shield late republic link Augustan until 46AD
imperial from 43AD
2. Helmets late republican linkin the early imperial period came in three types, which had many sub types left brass Coolus C (Augustan)with metal cheek pieces, center Imperial Italic, ;right Imperial Gallic A great over view of Roman helmets Imperium]link armoury 3 the military military waist belt changed
4. white tunics are more possible than the more popular red, I have painted mine off white, as it is a symbol of a Free Roman Citizen male of voting age, I use white up to 90AD, then red.
5. Armour Lorica Hamata late republic and imperial, the 9th were still wearing Hamata in 60AD during Boudica's revolt
Lorica Segmentata Kalkriese 9AD till 140AD
Lorica Segmentata Corbridge pattern 30 AD to 250AD
Lorica Segmentata Newstead pattern 90 to 280 AD
cheers Matt.
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Fireymonkeyboy | 23 Apr 2012 6:36 p.m. PST |
So, Segmentata is anachronistic for Caesar vs. Pompey, but Hamata might still be kicking around by Augustus / Tiberius? Thanks gang. FMB |
Defiance Games | 23 Apr 2012 6:48 p.m. PST |
FMB – that's it! Roman legionaries fighting for Caesar:
Early Imperial:
Keep in mind that Centurions and other legionary "command" may be wearing older forms of armor. |
Weddier | 23 Apr 2012 7:21 p.m. PST |
Eastern legions continued to use mail (lorica hamata) throughout the EIR period, as did the urban cohorts of Rome and probably the vigiles also (being a nod to tradition). The lorica segmentata (a made up modern name, we don't know what the Romans called it) was used in Western Europe. There may have been some use of scales or small lamellae for armor also, plenty have been found from all over the Roman world by archaeologists. The segmentata types don't seem to have been issued all at once, just sort of replaced the mail as needed. Late Republic armor would be OK for Augustus' army, but from Tiberius on, later helmets would replace the Montifortino style. |
Travellera | 23 Apr 2012 10:18 p.m. PST |
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Patrick R | 24 Apr 2012 4:18 a.m. PST |
The current evidence points that the Roman army introduced new equipment in the 1st century AD, though much of the older equipment would have remained in service alongside it until it broke down or they could afford new kit, some legionaries would have carried older equipment until at least the late 1st century, updating as they went along. Mail never really went away, and based on archaeological findings the segmentata may not have been exclusive to the Legions. It's quite likely that some of the older equipment was passed on to auxiliaries, which explains their "preference" for certain equipment. |
TKindred | 24 Apr 2012 11:24 a.m. PST |
Concur. It's interesting to note that segmentata has also been unearthed at at least one site known to be garrisoned by Auxilia. I love this period because it is a transition period and allows for a great deal of latitude in building up a force. |
Scutatus | 25 Apr 2012 8:16 a.m. PST |
In short, the stereotype of the Roman soldier seems to be just that – a stereotype. Increasingly, it would appear that they actually used a variety of equipment and armour. When you put the information together it becomes evident that there was not as much uniformity as many would imagine. :) One point: Chainmail/Hamata NEVER went away. Legionaries carried on using it throughout the Imperial period and indeed, from the 3rd Century, it regained favour – as did scale armour. The Segmentata was around for under three centuries but never completely usurped the other armour types – on the contrary it was the "new boy" segmentata that was eventually abandoned. Despite the stereotype, chainmail remained a popular constant. Brilliant posts guys, thank you. |
Scutatus | 25 Apr 2012 11:05 a.m. PST |
P.S. On the Tropaeum Traini metopes in Adamklissi, which commemorates Trajan's Dacian Wars, circa AD 101 – 106, and apparently erected by the local soldiers who very likely actually fought in the campaign, legionaries are commonly depicted wearing scale and chainmail armour, coupled with manicae on the right arm. Other tombstones and monuments from around the Roman world also portray Legionaries in chainmail armour. Meanwhile the famous Trajan's column and other more official "propoganda" monuments, of course dipicts the Lorica Segmentata. So apparently, the actual legionaries portrayed themselves largely in chainmail and scalemail while the state government would have us beleiving in universal Segmentata. Since the Legionary in Segmentata remains the common stereotypical image of the legionary (reinforced by Hollywood and most reenactors), it seems Roman propoganda still has a hold on us. The truth however, may have been very different. The testimony from the soldiers themselves on their own monuments strongly suggest that segmentata was not nearly as dominant as the likes of the Ermine Street Guard would have us believe.:) |
CooperSteveOnTheLaptop | 27 Apr 2012 6:42 a.m. PST |
So why did the state want to promote the image of segmentata? I mean generally speaking it is easy to carve than chain, but
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TKindred | 27 Apr 2012 8:57 a.m. PST |
Actually, most hamata wasn't carved when reproduced for statues. Rather, a smooth finish was given and then the mail was painted on. Saved a lot of time and money that way, especially since the statutes were painted all over anyway. This is also the reason why folks were thinking for so long that the Romans used "boiled leather" or "leather" cuirasses, armour, etc, as they didn't realize the statues were painted, and just saw what remained of the smooth-finished armour. |
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