"Undercoating tanks" Topic

I was just undercoating some PSC Stug IIIs the other day. I normally undercoat in black, I know it dulls the other colours but makes it look better if I miss a spot in the later stages! Then I thought about the realism of undercoating in black and it got me wondering if anyone undercoats tanks in the red primer as they would be in the factories? What colour do you undercoat with, if at all?

I undercoat in black (GW Chaos Black Spray) and then dampbrush with pale grey or sand so that I have a pale undercoated vehicle with all deep detail in black.

White and add the details / shading through painting / washes etc

White.
I tend to view painting miniatures the same way as painting a picture.
I would never paint on a black canvas as it would mean the colours that have been made for application onto white do not show up as intended.
The way around the problem mentioned is not to miss any bits then you wont have any undercoat showing, white or black.

White for everything. It brings out the colours . With small wargames models and figures you need a slight artificial 'brightness'.

Never understood the point of undercoating in black. It dulls colours.

Can somebody explain why black became 'fashionable'?

I think fashionable as it allows people that have missed areas of figures to claim that the black is in fact a shadow and not just where they missed a bit.

We don't seem to have a problem with black dulling colors:

evilbobs.biz

evilbobs.blogspot.com

Everything was painted with a black undercoat.

Well, I use a dark gray, with a damp brus of lighter gray then white.

As for under coating it all depends on your painting style.

I started with plastic models, in which solid opaque paints for base coats with effects applied directly with out any priming. Then washing or paint recessed lines painted in black or other dark color etc. etc. all the work is up from there.

Color density in a lot of ways depends on paint, and a lot of "miniatures" painters use transparent paints for their effects which need a brighter background layer.

I generally use very bright opaque paints for my base coats over my dark priming with several very light dry-brushed layers on top before any effects washes.

Priming, Paint choice, specific technique are all subject to fad, it is up to each individual to come up with a set that works for them.

I usually undercoat black, suits my painting style. Layers of drybrushing and washes. Depends on scale of course, when I did 1/et scale modelling I never undercoated anything, it is more of a painting method for wargame pieces, quick and easy shading.

I usually use black for vehicles because of the reasons the OP states. It takes drybrushed colors well, and makes shadows (either purposely or when you miss a spot.

I'm not thinking in terms of how it was done in real life because perspective and appearance of a gaming miniature are completely different than in the real thing.

I do sometimes use colored sprays for undercoat and prime to save time.

Wal-Mart $.99 USD Flat Black to prime.
Then the appropriate base color.

I undercoat post '43 German vehicles in red-brown. The primer shade fits with the dark yellow better, and if I miss a spot, yes, it makes it more "realistic." There are other reasons too, like the fact the Germans switched to leaving the red-brown primer as a basecoat, and then camo'ing on top of this (roughly vehicles produced in the fall of '44).

Damon.

I don't have problem with black

Yeah, I have never had a problem with dull colours on a black base coat, so I have stuck with it. I should have mentioned all my stuff is in 15mm so that may make a difference. I usually find I need to put a couple of base coats of the initial layer though, but I think that might be Vallejo paints anyway, especially their Middlestone. On my Flikr stream are some of my tanks, all undercoated in black!:

link

Evil Bob and Olicana, excellent work both of you!

Black will dull more transparent colors – highly opaque paints don't have that problem.

I use Mr Surfacer 1200 spray – it's a light gray – just about EVERYTHING airbrushes beautifully on it…

Good painters get good results and everyone is different. It's silly to say a particular undercoat can't be worked with because somewhere somebody has gotten good results with it.

Personally, I learned to use white primer/undercoat and although I've tried gray, black, dull red, and brown, and tried adjusting my techniques, I still find I prefer white the most.

The problem with white undercoat alluded to in the original post can be solved by thinning your paint enough so it runs into the deep areas. You might still miss a spot from sheer oversight (forgot to turn it around to the other side did you?), but on a part you painted, there won't be white spots down in a crevice.

It takes me a couple coats of the Vallejo tans to get the color built up, but the Vallejo dark greens paint just fine over black.

I actually prefer to have the black undercoat, it makes any spaces that I can't get a drybrush into 'naturally shadowed'.

I even prime my Infinity minis black, when many of the painters on that forum use a white or gray start.

I do the same as Garand; Rustoleum red primer, then airbrush Tamiya dark yellow and the camo colors. I follow up with MIG dark brown around details for highlights. Looks beautiful if I say so myself.

Never understood the point of undercoating in black. It dulls colours.

And you wouldn't want colors like olive drab and panzer gray to come out dull!

(NB – some sarcasm may have been used in the production of the above message.)

I use different priming colours depending on technique. I use the wet highlight technique ("dalimore") for uniformed periods like Napoleonics where surfaces are small and broken up with straps, uniform details and equipment. For these I prime black. For ancients and colonials I use a white undercoat and use washes or 'dip'. For WWII vehicles I prime in a dark version of the main colour. I find the Krylon range of camouflage sprays excellent – very flat and with 'fusion' technology that works well on plastic and resin. The colours are useful: green for most nations as a base colour and I use their brown for late war Germans. I use a drybrush technique for applying the colours progressing to correct colour I want. Then I pin wash and detail before doing a light drybrush and chipping. Seems to work to my satisfaction. So, to conclude, there is no right priming colour – it is based entirely on the technique you use to finish the models and what 'look' satisfies you.

I realized I didn't answer the original poster's question,

Yes I frequently base coat in Primer colors like red lead or gray over the dark gray primer. I use a stippling technique that allows for gaps where the lower colors show through.

So after the priming coat it is a stippled coat of both bright and oily steel, then a stippled coat of the primer color (the vehicular primer either red or grey), then a stippled coat of the base colors. Then subsequent detail painting, washes and dry-brushing etc. etc…

Sometimes I add a a rust layer or two into the build up process.

As I work in 15mm I tend to use brighter colors in my process. Also the size tend to preclude a fair number of weathering techniques used on larger models.

No – I don't undercoat in an authentic primer colour. Although I seldom find myself in the majority on this forum I have to own up to undercoating in black.

I varied my technique to go with Vallejo type acrylics. They seem to work best over black and are sufficiently opaque that dulling isn't a problem.

If the question was about undercoating horses, the answer would be different (but it was about tanks) …

I see, I think. Using black seems to be the opposite to the effect I go for.

Black apparently allows 'shadows' to show through but some colours need more than one coat if they are not fully opaque. OK. The examples above are very nice but, in my opinion, the effect emphasises the 'shadows' unnaturally.

I like white because it allows 'highlights' to show through. I deal with 'Shadows' by a wash and the highlights remain.

I find black dulls even the 'dullest' of colours too much for my tastes and I haven't got the time, or inclination. to put on more than one layer.

To each their own.

For armor I used to do it as Infojunky describes. On the new armor I have I'm going to undercoat in a darker base color. Then hit it with a light spray of the basecoat followed by a misting of the base + hightlight on upper surfaces. Now to get through enough guys to make room to work on armor…

Another vote for black -- it tends to dull the colours down, can create a nice shadow effect, and because the steel underneath tends to look blackish, if you want to have som scuffing or similar you can just leave a little colour off.

However, I paint with an airbrush so getting the base coat to cover up the black is not an issue for me. Might be different with brush painting though.

Black.

I hate white and how it feels to paint upon a white surface (not to mention if you by accident miss a tiny spot). Everything I paint, regardless of it being 15mm or 28mm, is always painted with dark basecoats and from there I paint with brighter and brighter layers.

Undercoating with white would be a waste of time in my case since I would still paint it black/very dark as my first layer.

Never had any problems with dull colors or anything like that. It all depends on how many layers you paint everything with. I can get bright white over black without problem if I want to as shown by the picture below (although not a tank…).

I can understand people using white if they can't see the details and stuff when primed black, I've heard that reason before and can't blame them.

My undercoating of choice ALWAYS depends on the end result I am looking for.

If the mini is destined for bright stand-out scheme, prime in white, if the mini is going to have darker shades, prime in black.

Example: WWII Russian tank I'd prime black, a German Afrika Corps tank I'd prime in white. 40k Imperial Fists Chapter SM's: white, Alpha Legion CSM's: black, etc…