" Australians in Vietnam can anyone help?" Topic

I just got a nice load of Flashpoints excellent Aussie figures for Vietnam I have the painting guides all worked out but now I need to know how the Aussie forces were made up. Did the Aussies have Armor and if so what kind; was it M-113's or something else, what about air and Arty that sort of thing and what was their make up of the squads, Platoons, Companies and battalions. I will be using Battlefront WW2 rules modified for Vietnam.

You might find the answers in a MicroMark list at Wargame Vault.

They did use 113s and their arty was from New Zealand . We also gave much support( 175/8" ).especially in 67 around Nui Dat

Yes they had armour : Tanks Only one sqadron was ever deployed at a time and used Centurian Mk 5/1 with side skirts removed.
Sqd HQs
2 Cent Mk 5/1
1 M577 arm command post vehicle
2 M113
1 M113 with T-50 turret w 2 7.62mm L3A1 (M1919A4)MMG
1 M113 Medical evacuation vehicle (medics track)
x4 Tank troops each with 3 Cent Mk 5/1
Support troop
Special equipment troop : 2 Cent AVLBs
2 Cent with Dozer blades
Light Aid detachment :2 Cent ARVs
3 M113 fitters vehicles
Modifications to MBT include the removal of side skirts smoke dischargers and addition of PRC25 Radios to allow commo with supported infantry.

Cavalry Squadron
Squadron HQs : 1 M577
3 M113
x 3 Troops each with
Troop HQs : 2 M113A1
x 3 Sections each with 3 M113A1
Support Arms Troop with :
3 M113 each with 81mm Mortar and 1 M113 Command vehicle
By 1970 add 2 APC sections each with 3 M113 with T-50 turret
5 Armoured command vehicle sections each with 1 M577and 1 M60 MMG.
Light Aid detachment 4 M113 Fitters vehicles.
up to 1966 may be a mix of unprotected 50 cal or M74 turret
after 66 2 of every 3 M113 would have had the T-50 turret some modified to have one of the MGs on a pintle mount atop the turret and some have 1 M2 50 cal and 1 30 cal.
There is photgrapic and rare mention of a troop of M113 FSV
which had the turret of the Saladin arm car 76mm mounted.
what actions they took part in I just don't know but Im sure they used them. Also the Australians did not have Mech Inf in the way that other Free world forces did , The Cavalry troops where married up with the infantry as needed to provide more mobility and fire power when needed and are described as APC Squadrons and troops to reflect this.
Infantry
Most Heavy weapons where held at BN
with the Company having a small weapons section with 2 M60 with tripods and 3 M67 RR.
On paper the Bn HW Troop had either 4 M40 106mm RR or 8 84mm
Carl Gustav M2 RR but in practice had the M67 90mm RR to ease Logistics. there where also 12 81mm M29 Mortars .
and a assualt pioneer Platoon with flame throwers mines and demo charges at Bn.
x3 Rifle Platoons
PHQs
1 Off w/owen SMG
1 NCO w /rifle
1 RTO w /rifle
1 Runner w/rifle
x 3 Inf sections
each of two elements
rifle element 1
1 Section leader w/rifle
1 scout w /owen SMG or Rifle
1 Machine gunner w/M60
1 Asst MGr w/rifle
1 rifleman w/rifle
Rifle element 2
1 Asst Section leader w/rifle
1 scout w/owen Smg or rifle
3 rifleman w/rifle
Rifle would have been the SLR with scouts and leaders using the M16 when they could get them.
Source: Osprey Ambush Alley games Ambush Valley Version 2
Osprey Vietnam Infantry tactics

6 cans per day :(

I wrote up an article for wargaming ages ago on the M113 used by Australia – you can down load it here: mediafire.com/?igyiumnjymz

And the Australian War Memorial has some information on their web site: awm.gov.au/atwar/vietnam.asp

That link is for an overview, but you can did up more info in the web site through searches.

The AWM also has the unit structures: link

Note: the 1966 Inf Section lists 1 x M79. This was carried in addition to a rifle. So who ever carried it carried both weapons.

…and their arty was from New Zealand.

As an Aussie Gunner, I can't let that one go by.

Royal Australian Artillery ( taken from this site: vvaa.org.au/oob.htm )

105 Field Battery 65-66

1 Field Regiment:
101 Field Battery 66-67 and 69-70
103 Field Battery 66-67
105 Field Battery 69-70

4 Field Regiment:

106 Field Battery 67-68 and 70-71
107 Field Battery 70-71
108 Field Battery 67-68

12 Field Regiment:
A Field Battery 71
102 Field Battery 68-69
104 Field Battery 68-69 and 71

131 Divisional Locating Battery 66-71

Guns used by Australia were the L5 and the M2A2.

Yes, NZ did supply troops: Infantry, Artillery and SAS, but these worked as part of the Australian units, mainly at company level i.e. one NZ company in an Aussie Battalion.

Sorry mate. I was with our 175 unit in 69-70. up in 1st Corp.
The older Ncos talked about their time with the Aussies down South and only mentioned the Kiwis.

The 84mm Carl Gustav wasn't used as Seden wouldn't provide ammunition for a war they didn't agree with.

No worries :-)

Just defending the Regiment ;-)

thanks shelldrake. i fell off my chair when i saw that one.

Not sure on whoa M's section organisation. In the 1980's, an infantry section was

scout group – one or two scouts
command group – corporal and radioman
gun group – m-60 crew and a rifleman
rifle group – three riflemen

and I believe it was unchanged from Vietnam.

In addition to Anzac arty, a US battalion of ?155mm? was also present.

FPR is right, basic section org was:
1 Cpl – command
2 scouts with SLR & M16 or Owen SMG – scout group
4 SLRs – rifle group
1 M60, 2 SLRs (1 no.2, 1 L/Cpl) – gun group

The M79 was a separate weapon, carried by either a scout and/or a rifleman. Later in the war the M203 started to appear, but it was an XM203, I think – still 'experimental' at that stage.

Claymores, grenades & LAWs to taste.

Which of course went out the window just about all the time as the troops adjusted it for themselves and as the day dictated.

The section had 3 'fire teams' (a term never used by them), the Cpl would traditionally go with the scout group. Not two, as rule writers try to make it fit to the US system.

Mind you, that's how I understand it and I know it was different throughout. I know a Platoon Commander who has the radio shot out in an early contact, so from then on he had every section carry one. Standard org was 1 RO at Pl level.

Ok this great information thanks everyone. So BattleFront WW2 is squad based so two figures per stand and three for a command stand. I will probably do one stand of two figures for one squad and one stand with a M-60 and one more figure for the other stand and a stand for the PLt command.

"Not sure on whoa M's section organisation."

Yes, there was an error in how the Australian rifle section was presented in Ambush Valley. The overall manning is still basically correct, but splitting it in half is wrong. I'm still not 100% sure where the error came from.

Here are the threads on the Ambush Alley forums where this was cleared up:

link

link

Have a read of the books by Lex Macauley, Battle of Coral and Battle of Long Tan. Lots of good stuff for everything from patrol skirmishes to set piece battles.

Paul Ham's "Vietnam. The Australian War" is an excellent one volume political and military history too, (although on the political side his views are right of centre and he lets it show, which detracts from an otherwise unbiased account.) Again lots of good stuff from patrol actions to major battles like Long Tan, plus much on the work of "The Team" with local forces.
I picked it up for $40 USD AUS in Brisbane, but postage for 814 pages is likely to be steep.
Cheers,
Bertie