"What if Wellington..." Topic

…were in command of the Army of Northern Virginia at Gettysburg?

1. Three days of artillery pounding on gray squares.
2. JEB Stuart wouldn't be the fanciest dresser in the ANV.
3. Three days of waiting in vain for the Prussians to come and win the battle.
4. Other – add your own.
5. Needs more Napoleonic Zardoz Boobies

6: Meade loses.

Wellington wasn't that fancy a dresser

He would. on the other hand, probably done things quite differently than Bobby Lee – especially on the second day – which might have been very unfortunate for George Meade

4 – what side would Sharpe be on?

4. How bad would he have smelled, seeing as he died in 1852?

He would not have known what to do.
All the reverse slopes were on the Union side!
Well, maybe one… But Meade would not have attacked him anyway.

So, with Meade and Wellington commanding the opposing armies, no one would have attacked, and they would still be there. All of the original soldiers would have died of old age, or had their enlistments expired. Replacements would have been replacing them for 149 years.
There would be no need for Gettysburg reenactors, since the Union and Confeerate replacement sldiers would have taken away the need for them.

The battle would be a permanent tourist attracton, and the USA and CSA would have been "too busy" to get involved in the Great War. Without Wilson to be a busy body, the Great War would have petered out to a conclusion where no side could have claimed being stabbed in the bask. No stab in the back, no WW2.

Republicans and Democrats would still be bickering about "bringing the boys home", but the war would have been over by 1866. With the exception of Gettysburg, of course. They would still be there.

Oh, and the Whig Party would have made a comeback in the 1870s, seeing that the War of Inter-American Unpleasantness was still dragging on, and the Republicrats had made such a mess of it.

the fact that the vwar "ended" in 1866 and is still going on now is one of those Contradictions of History that is best to not think too hard about.

well Wellington had been dead for some 12 years so I don't think He would have had much impact on the battle.

If Wellington had been in command of the ANV there would not have been a Battle of Gettysburg.

He would've retreated back to Portugal.

With Wellington in command the ANV would have all been equipped with those nifty rubber boots. They may not have won the battle, but the retreat in the rain afterwards would have been easier.

Not to mention the fact that his soldiers would have had a tasty beef dish to eat instead of rusty bacon and hard tack.

So my choice for #4 would be dry feet and better food for the Rebs.

If they all wore wellies then the ANV would not have diverted to Gettysburg on the rumour of shoes.

For a start he'd have kept his cavalry near at hand where it could have done something useful instead of allowing it all to go showboating off around the AotP.

and Wellington commanding the opposing armies, no one would have attacked

Not that 'Wellington was a defensive General' schtick. My God Hollywood has a lot to answer for!

In case your interested in lifting your veil of ignorance, try googling:

The assault across the Douro at Oporto
Salamanca
Vitoria
The Pyrennees
Toulouse

Is Old Nosey on the receiving end, again?

Is Old Nosey on the receiving end, again?

That would imply that he only fought defensively!

There's also Assaye and Arguam.

That depends on whether or not the Army of North Virginia was composed of midgets. The Union soldier tended to fire over the heads of their targets anyway so Pickett's charge would have been either a success or a crashing bore, due to the short strides of the midgets. I think we should see "the Nixon-Frost interviews as re-enacted by midget wrestlers" in order to resolve this conundrum.

The South gets beaten quicker.

Mud wrestling, with Penelope Cruz as Meade and Scarlet Johannsen as Wellington. Yeah, I like that.

Aaaand Floogle completes the circle.

vtsa – ho yeah!

My God Hollywood has a lot to answer for!

What does Hollywood have to do with it?

Well it would seem to inform your views of Wellington's abilities as a general – either that or you were trolling – surely not John, a man of your right thinking credentials!

I also wonder what Hollywood has to do with it as well..does Wellington feature in many Hollywood movies.?.I can't think of any..Waterloo was a Euro thing..wasn't ? IMDb seems to think of it as a French film…your'e not getting mixed up with Hollywood's damnable portrayal of Monty? or are you just blaming the cinema world in general? and just getting into the swing of what a silly topic this really is..More interesting it would be "if Stonwall Jackson had been in command of Grouchy's corps"

What if Wellington…the Prussians would have won Gettysburg too…

Like Gary Lineker said: and in the end Germ…ermmm…Prussians always win.

Wellington would have kept a tighter rein on his corps commanders.

His troops would have entered the battle fed & equipped.

He would perhaps have refused to attack at Gettysberg, manouevering for a better position (see Wvs Marmont before Salamanca).

And finally IF he'd a lost the battle, he would NEVER have taken the blame.

And finally IF he'd a lost the battle, he would NEVER have taken the blame.

You sure your not thinking of Napoleon there, bud?

You sure your (surely "you're"?) not thinking of Napoleon there, bud?

No, my buddy. We are talking about Wellington in this thread.
He was quite protective about his battlefield record.

You may not have seen this most excellent book by a noted German scholar.

link

Wellington was a great man, my buddy, but even the greatest have floors.

Yes I have read Hoffies' books. There's just one FLAW in his thesis:

Wellington ascribed the successful result of the Battle fulsomely to Blucher and the Prussians in his immeadiate post battle despatch to London!

A fact Hoffie studiousy ignored! The single most key primary source available about his view of the battle!

"I should not do justice to my own feelings, or to Marshal Blücher and the Prussian army, if I did not attribute the successful result of this arduous day to the cordial and timely assistance I received from them."

If Wellington had flaws, telling lies about historical events in which men died was not one of them. As I said, Napoleon was the one for that…

Well done Sparker. You picked up my deliberate misspelling & undoubtedly worked out my cryptic reference to "even the greatest"(though I'm not really that vain). There's hope, yet.

Can we keep to the topic & leave Nappy out?

I have no doubt the Great Man in question could be gracious to what he percieved as equals but when a mere Captain challenged his claim to fame: Waterloo?

If Wellington had flaws….

The Iron Duke is a man I esteem also. But "if"???? Try to keep things in perspective. I have read your posts many times at this TMP and you strike me as a man of sense but all things in moderation, what?

I also wonder what Hollywood has to do with it as well..does Wellington feature in many Hollywood movies.?.I can't think of any..Waterloo was a Euro thing..wasn't ? IMDb seems to think of it as a French film…your'e not getting mixed up with Hollywood's damnable portrayal of Monty? or are you just blaming the cinema world in general?

Well my good Cardinal, you do have an unerring eye for the irrelevant. Frankly I could not care less which country made the blasted film, I think it was an unholy alliance between a Russian director and an Italian producer, if you must know…

The point being that the hard of thinking have accepted one line of that film's script to the effect that His Grace the Duke of Wellington was a defensive general. What irritates me is that the merest amount of research on google, prior to sounding off, would list a string of his offensive victories and presumably give even the dullest of intellects some pause for thought…

I seem to remember that Hofie is not actually German; I am pretty sure that he is a Brit, although currently resident in Austria after his "issues" in Yorkshire;).

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I'm fairly certain he is not German, judging by the fuss he makes about reading German archives in German. Not quite so incredibly praiseworthy if one has German parentage, presumably.

If it were I would be singing about my French from the rooftops! (Though probably not in French!)

And finally IF he'd a lost the battle, he would NEVER have taken the blame

Your so confident how come? Did you read a book once?
If you had said "I doubt he would have ever have taken the blame" I would have taken it as an interesting point and maybe an insight into Wellingtons personality by someone better read on the subject than me. But your statement can mean only one of three things.
1) you were an intimate of Wellington and knew him quite well.
2) You read a Hoff book once and are now filled with blind zeal.
3) You are Hoff and are so filled with somthing else.

He would assign pickett's troops to Zardoz and attack George Meade's character.

@ Max.

You think I'm Mad Hoffie!?!

My first reaction to this was, naturally, to contemplate suicide.Clearly, I must be a deeply flawed human being to be considered Mad Hoffie.

However, I believe you have just confused a light and I hoped amusing response with the wild-eyed pronouncements of He Who Should Not Be Named.

So, apologies. And in future, kick my dog, insult my wife & tell my children they look like me but don't ever call me Mad Hoffie again (the only consolation is you didn't call me Dave Hollins).

You are Dave Hollins:).

You are Dave Hollins:)

I'm sure Bill has rules about the use of obscenities on this forum.And I'm sure that name qualifies as one.

Please desist or I'll sic Mad Hoffie on you.

Wellington would never have accepted the command of the ANV, As Tom Berenger playing James Longstreet said " Your country would never align itself to a country who believes in the institution of slavery. Hell, We should have freed the slaves first and then fired on fort Sumter."

Karpathian.
I beg your forgivness and throw myself at your mercy.
Max

Zombie Wellington leads the attack at Gettysburg. The evangelical Stonewall Jackson, who, despite having died several months earlier at Chancellorsville, is so appalled at the Confederacy's dabbling in the dark arts that he defects to the Union, taking many Virginia units with him. Sadly, he is fired upon yet again by friendly troops. Zombie Wellington halts his attack to devour Jackson's delicious brains.

Several months later, Lincoln's speech of the dedication of the cemetery takes a decidedly different tone: "Seriously, guys. What the hell?"

He'd have written the usual BS diplomats despatch praising everyone with a title. Even those of foreign extraction and dubious parentage who hid under a bush, just in case they had influence at court.
Ensuring his everlasting place in the firmament as a 'good egg' and a sure berth in the Old Etonians All Star trouser dropping 1st XV Hall of Fame.

Mad Hoffie would still be claiming that the decisive battle of the Civil war was won by the Prussians arriving at little round top on the morning of the fourth day.

lol@grizzly; but on which side would they be?

Karpathian,

Mad Hofie and I are old foes, which hardly makes me unique I suppose:).

Has anyone read the Mad Hofie v North Yorkshire Police saga?

No but tell all!!

Just google this: peter hofschroer yorkshire

Letter to North Yorkshire MPs from Mad Hofie:

Gentlemen,

I write to you again in your role as MPs in North Yorkshire about the RAMPANT CORRUPTION in North Yorkshire Police.

You are aware that the fraud investigator working on this case has described the problem here as,

I think the racket that is at the heart of this is that NYP Officers were running a private detective/investigation/extortion business out of Fulford Road Nick.

They are doing so at public expense with your full knowledge.

You are all aware that every chief officer and dozens of other officers are facing criminal charges for their role in the abuse of an 83 year-old invalid. You have been aware of this corruption in some cases for YEARS now and have not lifted a finger to do anything about it.

You have all been accused of at least turning a blind eye to your friends and associates systematically plundering the assets of vulnerable people in your constituencies. None of you have denied public accusations of complicity in these crimes.

Much of the material in question has been published on the blog of one of the victims in question. See: grandmabarbara.wordpress.com

You are also aware that Questions are now being tabled in Parliament asking for a public enquiry into the unbridled official corruption you are colluding with in your constituencies. Obviously, being corrupt MPs actively involved in the criminal activity in question, you have deliberately failed in your official duty of care, forcing a cross-bench member of the House of Lords to take up this case in your stead. See: link

The e-mail below is to one of the leading members of the one of the criminal gangs in question, North Yorkshire Police. The criminal in question here, a certain Detective Inspector Ellis, falsified evidence and allegations against me in an attempt to stop me giving evidence in this case of serious official corruption in what is now being described as, "the worst case of organised criminal corruption by police officers in the history of the British Police Service."

Obviously, the last thing I would expect any of you, as MPs in North Yorkshire to do is the job for which you defraud the British taxpayer by claiming a salary and expenses. However, I am now serving notice on you all that you are facing substantial custodial sentences for Misconduct in Public Office.

Yours sincerely,
Peter Hofschröer

mmmmmmmmmmm mud wrestling. I think ALL people who wear wigs should be banned from posting & made to work in the TMP kitchens.
Dick Van Dyke as Wellinton Gor Blimey G`ral Meade sir what a state, an` no mistake