"Germans in the Spanish American War and Mexican Revolution" Topic

Hello,
Any ideas regarding scenarios for German involvement in either the Spanish American War or Mexican Revolution? Wat units would be deployed? What would be the most likely scenarios?

I think the Germans that show up in Hollywood films are more the product of imagination than reality, but if anyone has better info I stand corrected.

For fictional scenarios I would think the likely forces would be armed sailors or marines. The regular army would be busy elsewhere. What about the 'Seebatalion' that was used in the Boxer Rebellion? Maybe naval gunners used as advisors for Mexican artillery, etc.

I have also been searching for historical evidence of German involvement but I think only a few advisors could be considered. Old Glory has a "fantasy pack" of German machine guns for 1898. That would be the closest you will get in terms of miniatures

Probably just advisors really. An officer figure or two perhaps on the board providing "leadership" and "advice" on the board- initiative bonus maybe? I don't think the Germans had whole units in these wars. If you want that then you need to go to WWI. Then you'll have lots of this stuff in China, Africa, and Asia with the Turks.

Seems to me Germany had only a diplomatic presence in Cuba and perhaps a military liaison. Nothing more than that. However, if you wanted to stretch reality a bit the Philippine theater had the potential for more German participation. Especially right after Manila when there was a lot of German and American saber rattling going on.

What Kugelfang says about the Span-AM war

In the Mexican Revolution they certainly supplied General Huerta with arms and probably chucked in a few military advisers to help.

Several Hollywood films on the Mexican Revolution have German advisers including A Fistful of Dynamite (AKA Duck, you sucker) and The Wild Bunch.

If you want to have German units involved on a fantasy basis then check out the Zimmermann Telegram.

As an alternative What-If to Germans then use the Japanese. I've read that several hundred fought in the Revolution as volunteers. They also tried to rent a naval base on Mexico's Pacific coast round about this time.

Well, its naval, but some Germans ships in the Philippines were supposedly interested in making a move to help the Spanish until a Royal Navy squadron let it be known that if that happened they would have no problem joining their American Cousins. For Naval stuff you could try "Politics of Frustration, the United States in German Naval Planning, 1889-1941."

Mexico had a sizable German population, especially in the State of Chihuahua, you could always do something like a German squadron lands a force to protect German interests and citizens from harm. The US then responds based on the Monroe Doctrine.

It has been many years since I read an article on German activity in the US during WWI. But one thing that stuck in my mind was a proposal received by the German General Staff in 1914. An Austrian dentist suggested recruiting German-Americans to invade Canada. This would be done under the guise of outfitting these recruits as cowboys and then moving north into the Canadian prairies during the round-up season.

Hmm, maybe someone had been reading too much Karl May. Needless to say, the proposal was not acted on. However, there has to be a game in this somewhere. Cowboys verses Canadian militia and or/the NWMP – cool.

Shedman,

thanks for the comment about the Japanese, very interesting. Google came up with this:

Possible Japanese plans in Mexico

To what extent the rising power of Japan was involved in Mexico during these years will probably never be absolutely known. It is not without significance, however, that in the later years of the Diaz regime Japan made strenuous but unavailing efforts to obtain a naval base on the Mexican coast; and that more than four hundred Japanese veterans fought in the ranks of Madero's army, while many thousands of them who applied for enlistment were only refused by the revolutionary authorities out of deference to the prejudices of the Mexican volunteers. Diaz himself was of Japanese ancestry .

Of course throughout this period Japan and the US were allies.

Jowady,

That's interesting, I had never heard that before. Do you have details of the Treaty it was based on, and its terms?

Regards

Mollinary

The Japanese fought on the Allied side in WW1, and cooperated in the intervention in the Soviet Union. Relations between the US and Japan had been quite cordial throughout the early part of the 20th Century,

While there were rising tensions, including Japanese ill feeling about the end of the Russo Japanese war, there were also events like the Lansing Ishii exchange of notes on China, which showed the cooperation of the two powers. It was largely the rise of militarism in Japan in the twenties that has colored US-Japanese relations from that time forward.

The film "Rough Riders" about Roosevelt and the Spanish American War featured German "advisors" at San Juan Hill.

I painted up a small force of WW1 era Germans (Airfix) as advisors for my Federal general – about 16 men, a couple of officers and a Maxim team. All in white tropical gear, they haven`t yet featured in a game though……..

in the S&T 242 Pershing the hunt for Pancho Villa is a optional rule to use a German intervention with a german Seebatallion counter.

link

The only time, when german tropps operated in mexico in the WW1 was in the battle of "Zwei Nogales".

link

In the Book "Das Waldröschen" from the most famous Writer Karl May (inventor of Winetou and Old shatterhand) is the Hero Dr. Sternau. He is the Doctor of Bismark and Advisor to President Grant and supports Juares inorder to spoil the French intervention in Mexico.

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The books are released as two films in 1965:
Der Schatz der Azteken and Die Pyramide des Sonnengottes
YouTube link

here the yourtube link….
that is realy the maximum of intervention you can imagine.
But that I think that is not what you have expected as the Germans help the US inforcing the Monroe Doctrine against the French intervention.

:)

Don't forget the US and Germany almost came to blows over Venezuela. Good for some naval actions, but a three-way action between landing parties of US and Germans and Venezuelans could be a fun little skirmish. I'd suggest Boxer Rebellion figures for the US and the Germans. Don't know about the Venezuelans.