"Mad Robot Miniatures - Harook Second Wave Update" Topic
68 Posts
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nothing | 26 Jan 2012 10:56 a.m. PST |
I must admit, I like the idea of mixing the tech and the organic elements. It does represent a significant decision on how the Harook line will evolve. Anyone else have ideas about this? |
Wolfprophet | 26 Jan 2012 12:36 p.m. PST |
Given their tech level, I would say skip the beasts of burden. They definitely need flyers though. Light gunships, dropships and the like. Anti-gravity or hovering weapons platforms would suit them well. Large enough for at least a crew of two or three. There is the complaint that they'll end up looking too much like another human-ish faction if they have too much gear most associated with human forces, but there's no way around it really. Create something too alien and people will like it, but not buy it(Just ask Jon from Khurasan, I remember him stating on at least one occasion the Cnidarian Overlords, the most alien thing he sells, were the worst selling figure set.) Stick with what people know and they'll buy it right up despite the complaints here and there! What makes it alien is fitting everything to their design aesthetic and physiology. I don't expect, nor even want to imagine that a human would be able to fit into the power armour created for Harook. As for vehicle ideas
A small one crew ground attack plane with at least two different weapons. Something almost glider sized. (Think along the lines of the Banshee in Halo in terms of size and role. Article for reference: link )
No ideas on an APC equivalent, but being birds
I don't think they'd even care for a tank except when they absolutely need the firepower, preferring to airdrop their infantry in or cut their heavier ground targets to ribbons with aircraft. The "Tank" problem can be fixed either by having them presented as relying on power armour for their heavy punch, or creating a light AFV that can be dropped off by their dropship. If I had to build them a certain way, it would be to aim toward a feel of highly mobile. Light grav vehicles packing a fair punch. Plenty of air power. |
Uesugi Kenshin | 26 Jan 2012 3:55 p.m. PST |
I agree 100% with Wolf that I prefer a traditional dropship over a large winged creature. |
Wolfprophet | 26 Jan 2012 4:13 p.m. PST |
Yeah. Large creatures always sound neat
but it ends up being wasted time, money and effort in the end since it comes to limited use. At least with a dropship and small atmospheric fighters, Mad Robot would have the market open to more people looking to use them for races other than Harook and maybe even people wanting them for other scales or other purposes entirely. 11 Years gaming + Capitalism + Analysis of fellow gamers = Sound ideas. ;) |
Newtype | 26 Jan 2012 11:27 p.m. PST |
Create something too alien and people will like it, but not buy it(Just ask Jon from Khurasan, I remember him stating on at least one occasion the Cnidarian Overlords, the most alien thing he sells, were the worst selling figure set.) I agree that the Cnidarians are too alien and in addition they are one of the few sculpts from Khurasan that don't really look good. But the Cnidarian represent an extreme example of the "alien scale". The Garn would be a more suitable comparision sales-wise, as they have a different approach to vehicles (open topped and energy shielden) and equipment (no armour, shields, etc.). At least with a dropship and small atmospheric fighters, Mad Robot would have the market open to more people looking to use them for races other than Harook and maybe even people wanting them for other scales or other purposes entirely. That would require a dropship that looks so generic, that it fits a lot of armies and the Harook. I'll provide an example: Khurasan went a different route with their Felid APC(that would fit a human and different alien forces too) than Critical Mass Games (walkers that look like giant cats.) Which of them sells better, I sadly don't know. I prefer CMGs idea by far. link link Stick with what people know and they'll buy it right up despite the complaints here and there! Yeah the magical recipee of marketing nowadays: "Make the same as everybody else and we can't fail" ;) Ultimately it's a matter of taste/creativity that Mad Robot has to decide and carry the consequences. Perhaps a poll would be a good idea! |
Eli Arndt | 27 Jan 2012 11:19 a.m. PST |
I do not think that vehicles need to be generic to have wide appeal. It is possible to make a vehicle stylish in a way that still allows it to be accessible to more than just the intended species. It's a matter of aesthetics. Slap a big ol' animal face on it and it will be locked i na bit more than if you evoked an animal in the design but left it mechanical. The big word here is LIKE. This is not to say whether or not people like it. That is another topic. When I say like it comes down to designing things that are like other things. Your dropship can be like a bird and not be a bird. Your APC can evoke the impression of a turtle without it being a turtle. If you go this route, then people will be better able to insert the design into their armies. An example would be the above mentioned dropship. If you wanted to go with a slightly higher concept and give it fanned out stabilizer blades, you would accomplish evoking the feel of a bird without planting a beak on the nose. However, the vehicles is also a hi-tech dropship using advanced bio-mechanical avionics that could carry in a unit of humans or other aliens. The turtle APC might simply be a high-backed APC with segmented body panels or even reactive armor that resembled the segments of a turtle's carapace. While looking VERY much at home in a reptile army wouldn't look out of place with Earth marines piling out of it. Some examples below. With the exception of the tilt-rotor osprey, most of them have a look to them that could be human or otherwise -
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Wolfprophet | 27 Jan 2012 11:23 a.m. PST |
"That would require a dropship that looks so generic, that it fits a lot of armies and the Harook. I'll provide an example: Khurasan went a different route with their Felid APC(that would fit a human and different alien forces too) than Critical Mass Games (walkers that look like giant cats.) Which of them sells better, I sadly don't know. I prefer CMGs idea by far. " Have you ever heard of the Lend-lease program in WWII? Or perhaps sale of military hardware to other nations or militant groups? How many countries use the Humvee originally designed and built for the United States? Point is moot. It doesn't require it to look too generic, it just requires you to start having an imagination. "Yeah the magical recipe of marketing nowadays: "Make the same as everybody else and we can't fail" ;) " Has anyone failed yet? They all provide tanks, infantry and most provide at least one sort of flyer or a small mech, but they provide different flavours and quality. There is also serious market gaps right now in Alien power armour, dropships, light flyers and things like that. We have tanks and mechs coming out the ass and loads of infantry to blow them up, be blown up and be squished beneath them
.but It would ultimately boring if the Harook became another "wade through the muck." race |
nothing | 27 Jan 2012 11:51 a.m. PST |
Well, I gave this some thought and my approach will be to do all of it. The awesome thing about the imagination is that you can use it to accommodate almost any premise, especially in sci-fi. I'm working on the back story, but it will address the difference in technology levels and still allow for some fun "low-tech" figures to supplement the Harook. More to come
So let's talk more about "light flyers". Any thoughts about those? |
Wolfprophet | 27 Jan 2012 3:54 p.m. PST |
Heh. When you said Low-tech
I automatically imagined Harook toting AKs and wearing some typical 3rd world-ish garb. Amusing image. Anyways! A light flyer
. Hard to say
We can list off what it needs as part of the design for a good start, then maybe someone can draw up some concepts. -two small engines, would mount them either on the sides or at angles along the top or the bottom. Intakes of course flattened into the frame. -In model terms the width should be around 4 inches including a cockpit if it's a VTOL, wider if it requires an airstrip. Length is up to dispute, but 5 inches or so for a VTOL, 6-7 if horizontal take off. We're talking a pretty compact plane here. More disposable than the pilot. -Please no bird faces. They have an aesthetic appeal, but they look much too silly. -Armaments: Energy or projectile? Or a mix? I'd assume energy. Perhaps options for an underside mount of an energy cannon or perhaps a pair of large munitions, perhaps a pod with a pair of fast firing energy guns? (Like adding a pair of extra machine-guns) Have a pair of fast firing energy weapons for the main weapons, likely attached to the fuselage near the front end. That under-fuselage weapon idea could be expanded into a few optional weapon pods. A cannon, rockets, pair of missiles or any other weapons we can think of. More ideas to come, but I need to just post and run now. |
Farstar | 27 Jan 2012 5:05 p.m. PST |
Mid-tech vs high-tech? Mid-tech will still depend on wings and obvious air-breathing thrusters. The shape of the cockpit will go a long way toward or away from the "bird of prey" aesthetic of the chassis. If the Harook spent considerable time as ground-based runners, they may prefer to be upright when at speed, possibly leading to something like:
If their running stance is pretty horizonal or they were recent fliers, and their current vertebrae can handle it, then a more normal (for Humans) cockpit glass arrangement would be called for, either in reclining or head-forward positions. If their eyes are not quite as forward as humanity's are, the glass will likely be bigger and as free of other chassis obstructions as possible to allow for natural peripheral vision. All of these factors will have an effect on cockpit glass shapes and placement. |
nothing | 27 Jan 2012 5:27 p.m. PST |
When I think light flyer, I think of a very agile, one or two crew concept, one main weapon, maybe a missile pod. For the Harook, I would go with a squadron of 3, each with a single pilot, grav engines, a weapon on either side to provide support for ground troops. Picture something like this, without the tail section & rotors:
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Farstar | 27 Jan 2012 5:31 p.m. PST |
Like a smaller set of attachments for this?
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nothing | 27 Jan 2012 6:52 p.m. PST |
Possibly, if you're talking about just the center part. |
Umpapa | 28 Jan 2012 7:31 a.m. PST |
Wish there would be also militia/rebels/gangsters Harook – a bit smaller ones, rugged clothes, less uniformed, eye-patch ;). Regarding Dropship: since Harook should be light as a birds, what about dirigible (aerostat) with some chicken perches below dirigible to transport Harook aeromarines?
"That would require a dropship that looks so generic, that it fits a lot of armies and the Harook. I'll provide an example: Khurasan went a different route with their Felid APC(that would fit a human and different alien forces too) than Critical Mass Games (walkers that look like giant cats.) Which of them sells better, I sadly don't know. I prefer CMGs idea by far. " I much prefer CMG walkers – just wish they creat one with feline head – for Khurasan Felids
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Uesugi Kenshin | 30 Jan 2012 12:14 a.m. PST |
Some concept ideas for Harook hunting/war hounds:
And some non-traditional Dropship ideas:
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Lsutehall | 30 Jan 2012 6:09 a.m. PST |
For a dropship/shuttle, how about something like the Vulture from this clip: youtu.be/82fGfIwdfdY WARNING: I've dragged this up from gameshow Hell – be prepared for cheesy dialogue and very poor acting! |
Farstar | 31 Jan 2012 5:01 p.m. PST |
That ship servitor's costume looks
ill-considered. The Vulture is classic, though, right down to perching on the wreckage. |
Wolfprophet | 31 Jan 2012 8:12 p.m. PST |
That very last dropship pictured and the tan one above it both look like very good starting points to me for a Harook Dropship. Need some curves added. The Harook design scheme so far seems to favour rounded arcs instead of hard angles. |
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