"alternative swastika flags" Topic

I post AARs on the web. I want to use a Nazi flag in a skirmish, but I don't want any trouble for my German readers. Is there such a thing as a bowdlerised nazi flag? This is for 28mm

In Jason Lutes' brilliant Berlin: City of Stone -- which is in black and white -- he just leaves the swastika out: black flag with a white circle in the center. You might consider a black triseklion also -- no offense to Tau Gamma Phi intended.

Won't your readers know it's just a modified Nazi flag? How about the Imperial flag or the Imperial flag with a German army eagle instead of the stylized eagle?

I'd use the official ones, and just photoshop out the center, when posting on your blog.

How about a solid black ostrich with its head in the sand?

Someone on here was using a cool looking "Thor" looking hammer with wings on both sides. I think it was a black hammer on a red field. I meant to mark the post but forgot and now can't find it. Hopefully they'll pop in on this post.

How about a solid black ostrich with its head in the sand?

With an airbrush in its wing/foot?

How about a smiley face with a Hitler stash or just use one and blur it in our battle reports.

Brian

I played in one of Bob Murch's pulp games at Historicon one year. He hands out bits of costumes to use as props to set the mood.

One of the players were the Nazis and they were given red armbands with a white circle. In the place that the swastika normally is, it was replaced with a large "V" (for e"V"il). It really looked the part, so that is how I painted my Pulp Figures with the arm bands.

Replace the swastika on the red flag with the symbol below.

link

Look at current WWII PC games as examples for what they do.

link
OR This maybe? Robert

There was an aerial recognition flag used by the Germans that consisted of the red flag with the white circle, but with a balkankreuz in place of the swastika.

Maltese cross? It's what the kaiser's air force used on thier aircraft in WW1.

Like this? Robert

link

When doing similar for VeryBritishCivilWar, I stole the idea from the Richard III film and used a boars head in the red circle with the red.

Makes them nice and pulpy villanous, without using lightning S's or things.

How about a solid black ostrich with its head in the sand?

This. So totally this. In fact, if I lived in Germany, I would get hundreds of decals made with that shape on it, *just* to mock the German lawmakers.

If I wanted to be somewhat more historically correct, I'd use the flag that Kaoschallenged linked.

Another option would be the letters PC in the white circle, with a diagonal black slash across the letters, and running from side to side inside of a black circle, overlaid on top of the white.

It'd look similar to Euro signs prohibiting people from performing certain actions.

What about a rat's anus?

A simple thing to construct is a black cross (i.e. plus sign) in a white circle on a red background. Just a simplified version of what Kaoschallenged showed.

Or would this be too similar to the swastika?

I realize German law forbids the use of the Swastika in about any and all instances, but hiding or disguising it will not alter history.

Or will it?

If you don't live in Germany why do have to conform to German law?

Will this do?

And of course there is some comments in this similar thread,
"Wargaming and the Swastika? "

TMP link

Robert

link

How about this option?

Maybe before you go through the hassle you should ask your German readers if seeing a swastika wlll bug them. If the AAR is from a historic situation I don't see why that symbol would cause trouble. I mean, after all, it's history.

Political correctness!!!!

But, if you really have to…

It is not history, it's pulp fiction that I am doing. I am concerned about German law because I would like to post to LAF and to germans. If they get uptight about leather weave buttons, they need their heads examined. But I don't need to risk getting someone in trouble because they visit my site.

Abdul, If people would object against the swastika i think they wouldnt like the Celtic Cross very much either ;)

>>I am concerned about German law because I would like to post to LAF and to germans. If they get uptight about leather weave buttons, they need their heads examined. But I don't need to risk getting someone in trouble because they visit my site.<<

I see. I didn't realize that there were actually restrictions. Thanks for the info.

Just as an aside, there was a 1970s Italian film I saw once which featured a group of bikers,who of course wore Nazi armbands.

When they were inside, there was a swastika on the white circle: Outside, the armband had no swastika on it. Hilarious. :)

"I realize German law forbids the use of the Swastika in about any and all instances, but hiding or disguising it will not alter history.

Or will it?".

If one doesn't know about history, or it is swept under the rug for the sake of political correctness, and forgotten, man is destined to repeat it.

You could go with a Civil War Rebel Flag, but that's probably just a bit too "Dukes of Hazard" for the subject matter, and I imagine many wouldn't get the joke.

The swastika, in one form or another, was used in the symbology of so many cultures, that I think it is a bit of an overreaction to outlaw its visible presence by associating it only with the NSDAP.

Still it's their government. Sooner or later they have to get the concept of government right, complete with freedom of speech. The odds are in their favor, even if their track record isn't.

A black star of david?

You know, the more I think about it, the more I like the 'No PC' version of the flag, Mako11.

It's either prohibiting the display of swastikas _Outside of academic and historical contexts_ (so no absolute Verbot) OR having Neonazis march through Berlin with proper swastika flags. I think it's easy to see why the choice was made for the former option, as the latter would be an quite an embarassment in domestic and foreign politics, and an punch in the face for everyone who suffered under nazi occupation.
Just to clear things up a little.

As a German, I would not be offended by seeing swastikas on tiny flags of wargaming troops, but I can understand that it's difficult if not impossible for lawmakers to decide wether a particular photo is meant to glorify nazism or just a display of hobby-related, historically accurate work.
I think the Balkenkreuz instead of a swastika works well enough.

It's either prohibiting the display of swastikas OR having Neonazis march through Berlin with proper swastika flags.

Cherno is right. What would everyone say if we were watching such a scene on TV news! It would certainly do no good to French public opinion towards Germany.

This has already been hotly discussed on another thread
TMP link
and some disagreement between members is clear enough; no need to start again…

And, the so-called "celtic cross" as shown above is not much better (although not illegal).

And, the so-called "celtic cross" as shown above is not much better (although not illegal).

Of course, specially in such presentation -and that's precisely why I proposed it

Currently the swastika is only -as it is for centuries- the symbol of jainismn: the most non-violent, peaceful religion one can dream of….

But I don't need to risk getting someone in trouble because they visit my site.

Kind of you, but may be an excessive worry? Are, say, the *English* pages of Wikipedia dealing with Nazism or the Swastika blocked in Germany?

'Pulp', but was 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' forbidden in Germany?

Heaven forbid anyone should embrace nationalism, socialism, communism, imperialism, capitalism, states rights, pagan idolatry, or any other political concept or order of social governance other than the current status-quo and infrastructure of the current ruling elite.

If the people are not happy, let them eat cake. They must burn more oil.

More bread and circuses please: another "reality show" is about to begin.

After-all, in the modern world, as it did in the past (in most instances), the opening of one's mind closes doors. Even Socratic learning was a form of mind control.

Pyrate Captian wrote:

Even Socratic learning was a form of mind control.

Why do you think that?

All the best,

John.

I wonder, has anyone embraced Laibach yet?

YouTube link

YouTube link

Anyway 'political correctness' has nothing to do with the presence or absence of swastikas. 'Political correctness' requires that the Nazis (or the Communists, or whatever) are contemptible, evil to the root bad guys and lose in the end.

Hi John,

Socratic learning is based on questioning designed to drive the learner to the conclusion sought by the teacher. In its actual form, and not that accepted in common and current usage, it is a manipulative form of education. Mind control.

Laibach…oh yes!!!! One of the greatest bands ever:). I love them:).

And remember to mention it (since it's unlikely to be visible on the figurines): evil peoples *smoke*!

Yes Abdul, but Political Correctness is usually only employed by a losing side.

Cherno, I'm surprised someone hasn't reminded the German government that hate-filled people like neonazis are very easy to provoke into starting riots and things. If you orchestrate it properly, you can allow all those idiots to gather, march down the street, start fights, and get arrested. Then you stick them in the same part of the jail as the toughest black/jewish/homosexual/whatever else the neonazis hate and watch the neos get smashed.

Repeat until they get the message.

That is quite a pragmatic solution, unfortunately "provoking fights and riots" is not something the police is keen to do, for obvious reason.

"provoking fights and riots" is not something the police is keen to do, for obvious reason.

Openly, not. But 'troublemakers' in civilian dress trying to turn a peaceful march into a riot DO exist. Several were videotaped in France last year, flying the marchers' 'stewards' by crossing unarrested barrages of uniformed police….

.

Political Correctness is usually only employed by a losing side.

I'd express it otherwise: Political Correctness is imposed by the winning side.
Of course, any 'official, compulsory' version of History (or of worldview, more generally) is biased and partial, the mark of intellectual dictatorship (ideological or theocratic), and is in breach of the freedom of opinion and expression theoretically warranted by the Constitution of any so-called 'democratic' State.

There are some german groups making a joke of the new nazis. One of them is the Apfelfront (apple front). I like their flag.