"Which Rules for Trek Ground combat?" Topic

What rules would you use for Star Trek ground combat?

I am thinking in the skirmish to Role-play sorts of level.

Am considering Savage Worlds, Blasters and Bulkheads so far. But one of the flavors of Prime Directive also scratch some of that itch (in that they are too complex).

Also consider this, it would be nice if character had some influence on ship combat.

You could try 5150 New Beginnings.

There is also a ship combat system in the works that uses characters pretty extensively.

Yes, I think this is very THW too. One of the Chain Reaction style games would suffice.

I am not convinced of that, but I have only played 5150 NB 3 or 4 times…. The other issue is there isn't a lot range of characterization for some of my players….

inda the same reasons AE:Bounty and and Star Mogul didn't make the list…

Though Laserburn might be an idea…..

I use Gruntz 15mm for most of my games and even fantasy (with some modification)

Gruntz would work if you want vehicle combat.

Otherwise, I would go with Blasters + Bulkheads.

FUBAR would work too.

Fantastic Worlds from Rattrap is also a goodo ne to look at.

-Eli

Silouette Core rules. They are quick, easy to learn, and combat is deadly if you rate the weapons correctly. It is scaleable and it has the ability to handle characters in control of vessels and smaller ships/mechanic as well. A very well rounded system from my experience!

InfoJunky, if you want more range of characters in NB you can do a couple of things:

1) break away from the current character generation system. The current system is good, but you can get much more variety if you allow other types of starting characters. My personal way of doing things is to let characters have a certain number of advancement rolls from the beginning…. creates a lot of diversity.

2) add more attributes/allow more attributes per character.

3) add new character types/QRS… you can maybe get some inspiration from other THW games, or just make up your own (its pretty easy). You can make some really interesting characters this way, as the official QRS tend to be relatively generic.

4) creative use of Professions. If you think of professions as more like skills, then you can see how that creates variety… take the Pilot profession to be a bit better at piloting (like having the piloting skill), stuff like that. Also allow the bonus to be added to more than one stat and suddenly you have a lot of variation… you can be a character who is terrible at talking (People) in almost all circumstances but is a genius actor… something about being on stage helps him disconnect from his worries, perhaps.

"I am not convinced of that, but I have only played 5150 NB 3 or 4 times… there isn't a lot range of characterization for some of my players….."

Did you play with the full rules?

The only way you get more "characterization" is by going full RPG or something. If you're only playing with REP, weapon, and maybe armor then you're missing out on a lot. The game has rules for skills, attributes (ie a certain "thing" that the character does poorly/well), and other stuff I don't know about because I don't have it yet.

Check out the complete rules before you toss it out of hand.

Skirmish to Roleplay level? So, generally not more than 10 models per side? Well, Infinity is my regular tool for that particular scale of conflict.

Rules and army lists are free, and it's not hard to rename a combi-rifle or multi-rifle a 'phaser'.

The major problem for Trek conversions is that there are only 4 or so different alien races. Antipodes, Morats, Shasvasti, and Exrah, plus the EI bots. Everyone else is Human or close enough to human to make no difference.

Traveller and Snapshot would work for RPG stuff, and combat.

Was tempted to say:

Roll D6 – Red shirts die on 1-6, captains and key crew die on 7+

But I would give Infinity a try for this – skill sets can be added as specific tasks if you require them.

If you are after RPG advice then pop along to starbase118.net who may be able to help turn their e-mail game into face to face. If not try to pick up a copy of 'Star Trek: Adventure Gaming in the Final Frontier' – no ship rules but it was adventure based with minis for combat.

Savage Worlds Sector 2

Another recommendation for Savage Worlds.
A wonderful core system that gives you a lot of characterisation and individuality. It is probably the only rulebook you need for gaming at this gang/squad scale in any genre, very flexible and easy to learn.

Plus most importantly, great fun.

Skippy, did you mean "Sector Zero?"

relsden.com/home/sector-zero

Fantastic Worlds is worth checking out for this. Blasters and Bulkheads, too.

Star Trek Ground Combat.

Such a thing exists?

I thought that the Star Trek universe tries to pretend that people don't fight on the ground; that it's all about the naval warfare.

Would be nice to see some real Star Fleet Ground Combat vehicles

Some of GZG's grav vehicles might fit the bill for ST ground vehicles.

-Eli

We used the original 5150 for Trek ground combat and added this rule:-

All Security "Red Shirts"
Unlucky: If within 3 inches of a 'star' figure that is hit, takes the hit instead.

The Ground Zero grav vehicles don't look anything like how I would imagine Star Trek Ground Vehicles to look.

I would expect to see sleeker vehicles, without turrets, protected mostly by shields, and weapons as "beam emitters." I guess that it depends upon WHICH Star Trek we are talking about too.

The JJ Abrams' Trek would probably have small "turret-like" structures, but would still probably be primarily shield protected.

The Original Show would probably have 1960's Style Sci-Fi guns on them.

The Next Generation stuff would probably have bands around the vehicles that were the "beam emitter" like on the ships.

See I always figured the main armament on the ST era tanks would be a photon torpedo launcher.

In high school, I had drawn some concepts based on stuff that I'd read.

In my version I had phaser emitters on the from of the tank, shields that protected it, but because I like the look of a turret I did had a photon torpedo launcher for a heavier hit in the turret.

It has been made quite clear in the ST universe that the highest yield weapons are the torpedoes. In space, they are the short range weapons, but on the surface of a planet those ranges issues wouldn't be quite an issue.

I also had APCS with transporter pads built into their crew compartments that could do a "tactical beam" that beams troops directly into favorable positions.

-Eli

well, GROPOS was made for land combat in that universe, and i'm a fan of the rules, BUT…its out of print, the vehicles are expensive(they are still available, but not all are in the line)and the best place to buy the game rules and miniatures is ebay, witch is getting to be a terrible place to buy fron.

GROPOS was Babylon 5 Ground combat, not Star Trek.

-Eli

I'd use 5150 just because I know it and like it.
Fantastic Worlds seems like another good option.

Depending on the era of Trek I picture armored vehicles as being slightly bulkier versions of the shuttlecraft, kind of boxy without a lot of external gribblies and relatively small-tiny 'turrets'. Lots of very fast drones and troops with anti-grav harness.
Would individual soldiers have some sort of shielding? Seems not since they never showed up on the series that I can recall… but they're in the MMO.

It all seems a much higher tech level than most scifi games are played at.

Yea, I was interested in the GROPOS vehicles and infantry, until I saw their price.

Dodged a financial bullet on that one, since they were over-priced to start with.

Battlestations is a good game, in particular if you want individuals and want them to interact with the ship.

Tanks and AFV would have no use in the trek universe.
Transporters make APCs unnecessary, as do shuttles.
Shuttles and ships can pinpoint and vaporize anything that size fairly easily.

The Advancements in Trek have set warfare back to infantry fights only. Droids, battle suits, mortars, hand weapons, and shuttles are all you would likely see.

Still plenty to game with there.

I don't think we learn much about the actual ground combat in the Trek universe from the official sources, if indeed such a thing as Trek universe infantry actions exists except in a fairly negligible capacity between ship crews. So anyone wanting to recommend any rules should start by defining what they expect the Trek combat to be like.

That said, ADB is reportedly designing a battleship boarding/infantry action/somethingsomething game to go with their version of the Trek universe.

The closest we got to ground combat that I can remember was the DS9 episode 'The Siege of AR-558'.

I was always surprised that Starfleet didn't issue protective headgear or armour to it's ground troops.

I think it's because armour isn't supposed to do a whole lot of good against phasers or disruptors. Obviously armour might be of use against less advanced weapons, such as Klingon hand weapons. But I suppose the Fleet's supposed to do the flyin' and we never see the guys who do the dyin', to mangle from another source…

The original series episode with the Gorn speaks of mortar fire. There are also plenty of episodes where they run into atmospheres or technologies that make all the "easy" methods of trek combat unuseable.

-Eli

That said, ADB is reportedly designing a battleship boarding/infantry action/somethingsomething game to go with their version of the Trek universe.

I had Module M for SFB. That's the advanced boarding rules and light ground-combat rules. It's OK, but it's operational-level at best. Ie, you decide how many forces to allocate to each area (within transportation limits), then basically roll a single die to see if you succeed or not.

As far as I know, they (ADB) still haven't figured out how to do tactical-level ground and/or boarding combat.

Well, this is a gamer's golden opportunity.

If there is no "official" view of ST ground combat then it's anybody's game as to how to do it.

I would say if you WANT to game it, then you need to develop it in a way that makes it fun to do so.

-Eli

The ADB message boards give the impression that a ground combat game is in the works for next year.

I've been told that there was a guy, a long time ago, who did a game called "Star Fleet Marines."

It was created by a guy named Michael Thompson (This is related from the Roommate). He did the X-Ships and Pseudofighter supplement for Star Fleet Battles.

It has been suggested to me that if anyone knew where Michael Thompson was, they might be able to get a copy of the rules.

Lion in the Stars 27 Dec 2011 6:55 a.m. PST:

As far as I know, they (ADB) still haven't figured out how to do tactical-level ground and/or boarding combat.

They may have not figured it out but they do seem be keen on publishing a ruleset anyway, although I'm not sure how official the announcement Caesar mentioned above really is.

Just use Savage Worlds. Star Trek is basically pulpy anyway, and the rules are cheap and simple.

Related from Roommate:

I wonder if they (ABD) are going to rip-off Mike again with their Ground Combat system the way that they did his Fleet Combat System

@Alex: If they're talking about the 'Commanders Edition' X-ships and PFs, count me OUT. The phrase you're looking for is 'balanced internally, but broken beyond belief outside the stuff he developed'.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some Trek ground combat, but ADB has shown that they're pretty good at games with the Captain/Colonel's POV. Full Birds do operational-level stuff, tactical games are the purview of Majors and below.

If you want characters and redshirts, I'd go with Savage Worlds.

BattleStations is another Idea…..

I have several system now penciled in the playtest board, we'll see how things progress.