Editor in Chief Bill | 06 Dec 2011 5:32 p.m. PST |
Historian Kenneth Munson has written: Controversy over whether the Sopwith Camel or the Fokker D.VII was the finest fighter aircraft of World War I will probably always persist, but the Camel is undisputed champion in terms of enemy aircraft destroyed, its tally – during only sixteen months of operations – being 1,294 victories. In your opinion, which was the finest fighter aircraft of WWI? * Sopwith Camel * Fokker D.VII |
Chocolate | 06 Dec 2011 5:37 p.m. PST |
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flooglestreet | 06 Dec 2011 5:43 p.m. PST |
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SgtPain | 06 Dec 2011 6:02 p.m. PST |
I suspect the Sopwith Camel was better of the two, based on the combat record. However you need to keep in mind that the Sopwith was in service for 6 months longer then the D. VII, and produce in higher numbers then Fokker could every hope to. That being said, the two are very compatible aircraft the Fokker was a bit faster and easier to fly then the Sopwith. However the Sopwith was more agile then the Fokker, with a reputation of being a "widows maker" if flowing by inexperience pilots. |
John the OFM | 06 Dec 2011 6:06 p.m. PST |
The Albatros DVa was the prettiest. That's all that matters. |
Mako11 | 06 Dec 2011 6:34 p.m. PST |
I'll go with the Fokker. A lovely plane. |
elsyrsyn | 06 Dec 2011 6:34 p.m. PST |
Was not the D VII specifically banned by the Versailles treaty? That speaks volumes to me. Other than that, the OFM is right – several of the Albatros series were far prettier than either, which is the deciding factor in many ways. But then, I've always had an odd attraction to the Roland Walfisch, myself. Doug |
gweirda | 06 Dec 2011 7:28 p.m. PST |
"
in terms of enemy aircraft destroyed
" Admittedly exaggerated -if not outright invented- claims. Apples and oranges. The Camel had its fortes, and the Fokker had its own strengths. To say one was 'better' is nothing more than a reason to blather on some internet forum or
oh
never mind ; )
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John the OFM | 06 Dec 2011 7:34 p.m. PST |
Well, that IS what TMP is all about, hainna? |
Sundance | 06 Dec 2011 7:51 p.m. PST |
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Derek H | 06 Dec 2011 7:54 p.m. PST |
The Fokker was in a Messerschmitt |
RazorMind | 06 Dec 2011 8:12 p.m. PST |
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goragrad | 06 Dec 2011 8:44 p.m. PST |
Well as the Sopwith was the aircraft flown by the noted WWI flying ace Snoopy, I think that says it all. Insofar as looks though, I must admit that (having once heard some other aircraft described as a 'barn with wings') the Sopwith looks rather like a doghouse. Without wings. |
21eRegt | 06 Dec 2011 9:28 p.m. PST |
Lower stall speed, better dive rate, better machine guns (at least more ammunition): I'd rather fly the DVII. |
Jlundberg | 06 Dec 2011 9:55 p.m. PST |
I like the look of the Pfalz, as well as a pretty cool name |
David Manley | 06 Dec 2011 9:58 p.m. PST |
Neither of them. The Brisfit rules :) |
ancientsgamer | 06 Dec 2011 10:02 p.m. PST |
DVII has better stats. Unfortunately the toll on German pilots and less production made it have less of an impact. Besides, wasn't the Camel essentially THE plane assigned to Allied pilots by a certain time period? Not sure the Germans really ever standardized on anything. As far as maneuverability goes, there was a reason the Baron flew the tri-plane
. In less capable hands, it wasn't as good. I am in the camp that he was shot down by anti-aircraft by the way
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John D Salt | 07 Dec 2011 3:47 a.m. PST |
Biggles flew a Camel, but never a Fokker (though I think he flew a Pfalz in one story). So it's the Camel for me. Wilks, of course, will claim it's the SE5. All the best, John. |
David Miniature Armies | 07 Dec 2011 5:59 a.m. PST |
I've always liked the Albatross DVa and the Spad 13. But to chose i would go with the Fokker DVII. |
hurrahbro | 07 Dec 2011 7:02 a.m. PST |
Another Brisfit fan here, though the Fokker VIII (the parasol wing monoplane) showed great promise. |
moonhippie3 | 07 Dec 2011 7:13 a.m. PST |
I'd rather go up in a Fokker Dr1. I'd sacrifice a little more speed for durability and manouvering. That being said, I wouldn't want to go 1 on 1 with a camel. However, a squadren of each, and I think the advantage would shift to the Dr1. They could better maintain a tighter grouping and be able to concentrate fire, while the camels would be all over the place. |
Buff Orpington | 07 Dec 2011 8:06 a.m. PST |
The Fokker had a longer service life, seeing action in the wars in China, I think the Camel was pretty much gone by the end of the Russian Civil War. I'd go with the Brisfit though. |
Old Slow Trot | 07 Dec 2011 8:14 a.m. PST |
Both are fantastic machines,but I'd go with a Sopwith Snipe if flying Allies if possible,followed by the Camel or the SE-5a,and if CP,the D-VIIa would be my baby,followed by the Oeffag s-153 or 253;the Dr-I is fine too. The Bristol F2b that David Manley spoke of ,I'd say is one of the best of the 2-seaters. |
CharlesRollinsWare | 07 Dec 2011 8:49 a.m. PST |
Technically, the Camel was replaced by the Snipe and the later was the contemporary of the DVII. That said, given a choice I'd choose the Snipe or Camel over the DVII because of the rotary engine and its resultant effect on maneuverability. I learned to fly in Piper Cubs, and am a pretty good pilot. My life's dream is to fly a rotary engine Camel. That said however, given that the average RFC pilot left flight training with between 1.5 and 7.5 hours flight time, the thought of arriving in a Camel Squadron so ill-prepared is daunting in the extreme
it's nice that the RFC would be happy to supply you with a new machine were you to smash your's up
assuming of course, you survived
Taken from that point of view, the DVII certainly has its merits :) Mark |
Huscarle | 07 Dec 2011 10:53 a.m. PST |
Fokker DVII for me, excellent aircraft for a newbie, and an aircraft that could hang on its propeller. Elsyrsyn is almost correct, Clause 4 of the Terms of the Armistice stipulated that Germany had to hand over all DVIIs & all night-bombing aircraft. |
Ceterman | 07 Dec 2011 11:08 a.m. PST |
OFM, we all know the Pfalz DIIIa was the prettiest! Alb DVa, second! That said, I think just from a pilot's standpoint, you'd have to go with the Fok.DVII. I believe the Camel killed nearly as many pilots as the Germans did. It was very tricky to fly. Many pilots died in takeoff & landing mishaps. I don't think the same could be said of the DVII. It was said that (according to pilots of the time) it made average pilot good & a good pilot great. Maybe ask these guys, they should know: thevintageaviator.co.nz Peter |
Colonel Hairy Haggis | 07 Dec 2011 12:48 p.m. PST |
I like the Camel it's a killer! The Fokker D7 is a great fighter too, but the Germans painted their aircraft so much prettier than the Brits! So it's Fokker D7 for me! Haggis |
cmdr kevin | 07 Dec 2011 5:14 p.m. PST |
The D7 was the only aircraft specifically included in a treaty. The allies insisted they each get several to test and examine. Many of the smaller powers after the war flew them into 1930's. |
Etranger | 07 Dec 2011 11:10 p.m. PST |
As noted, the Camel was actually the precursor to the DVIIs contemporary, the Snipe so that would be the more exact comparison. The DVII just shades the Camel for me, due to the somewhate greater ease of flying. A 266 Squadron Camel on the other hand beats all comers
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flooglestreet | 08 Dec 2011 5:13 a.m. PST |
The Spad. The foremost ace of the first world war flew a Spad and he fought everything the Kaiser put in the air, Fokkers, Pfalzs, Rumplers, Albatross, Zepplins, giant bats, zombies. He also stole half of Germany's airforce one plane at a time. He reported directly to the president and the commander of the US forces, so he could have had any plane he wanted. But he and his Battle Aces always flew Spads. |
kduke42 | 10 Dec 2011 10:33 a.m. PST |
What fantasy story is this? Back to the original question-- don't forget that the Camel killed more ALLIED pilots than any other allied plane too. Partly that is the difficult handling and partly it's because it was the most widely produced fighter of the war. Numbers really count for stats in all directions.
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flooglestreet | 10 Dec 2011 11:06 a.m. PST |
What fantasy story is this? G-8 and his Battle Aces link |
Given up for good | 10 Dec 2011 3:48 p.m. PST |
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Old Contemptibles | 10 Dec 2011 6:53 p.m. PST |
I never knew this was a controversy. Fokker D.VII was simply the most advanced and best fighter plane of WWI. I am not sure the Sopwith is in the top three maybe the top five. The Camel was introduced in June 1917 while the D.VII was introduced in May 1918. Of course the Sopwith has more kills. It was in service longer and I bet more were made. Number of kills is irrelevant. The quality of the pilot plays into that as well. I am sure the Me-109 had more kills that the Me-262. But the 109 was in service much longer and many more were made but the 262 was the far superior aircraft. |
By John 54 | 11 Dec 2011 1:56 p.m. PST |
I never realised that the Germans-were-best-at-everything mentallity wasn't only about WWII. Oh. SE5 for me, as the finest all round scout (not fighter, remember) aircraft of WWI. Also, as am aside, was the 262 better than the 109? with a maintenance down-time of 20-25 times the 109, costing gawd knows how much more, I really doubt it. It's not all about speed, ceiling, and firepower. John |
Old Contemptibles | 13 Dec 2011 7:34 p.m. PST |
Well whatever, my point is you can't judge a fighter aircraft solely on number of kills. |
JJartist | 14 Dec 2011 12:04 a.m. PST |
SE5a for functional beauty for me
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Pyrate Captain | 20 Dec 2011 10:27 a.m. PST |
When built with the original power-plant and without short-cut construction the DVII is quite superior. Barring the maneuvering characteristics of a rotary engine, the difficulty in handling the Camel made it tricky at best to fly. It has been said that the DVII could turn an average pilot into a great pilot, and the DVII's handling characteristics are renown. In terms of service life, the DVII in one form or another remained in active service well into the 1930s. Asking which is the best aircraft is a lot like asking which is the best handgun. The best handgun per individual is one they can consistently hit the target with. The camel held a good account of itself in this regard. However, it should not be forgotten that of all the weapons systems the Germans and Austrians possessed, one of the single weapon platforms specifically cited in the Treaty of Versailles that was identified for complete eradication in German possession, was the DVII. My vote: DVII |
Omemin | 20 Dec 2011 1:59 p.m. PST |
I've always been a fan of the SE-5a. That said, the D-VII was a better aircraft. The Camel was a German ace many times over, should have got a Pour le Merite. |
BlackWidowPilot | 20 Dec 2011 6:38 p.m. PST |
SPAD XIII. 'Cause it's *FRENCH,* of course! Leland R. Erickson
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kduke42 | 22 Dec 2011 9:08 p.m. PST |
"it's not all about speed, ceiling, and firepower." I think there is a Damen Runyon quote that fits in here about now. |
Deucey | 13 Jan 2012 3:36 p.m. PST |
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Deucey | 13 Jan 2012 3:51 p.m. PST |
The Camel helped contribute to the RAF shooting down more planes than the Germans even had! Nevertheless, the D7 was better from all I've read. The Camel contributed more to victory by combining quality with quantity, much like the Sherman tank in WW2. |
evilmike | 01 Feb 2012 8:05 p.m. PST |
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20thmaine | 02 Feb 2012 11:06 a.m. PST |
Camel. Doubly so if in the hands of Biggles. |
Willtij | 02 Feb 2012 11:23 p.m. PST |
The D7. But then I guess part of that duel would depend on who was piloting at the time. If I could pick a pilot to have in the D7 it would have been Werner Voss (if he had lived into 1918). |
Elenderil | 18 Mar 2012 12:02 p.m. PST |
Early war I like the Sopwith Pup apart from the fact that it is under gunned. Overall I would go with the Bristol Fighter or the Fokker DVII or my personal fav the Seimanns Schukert DIII or DIV. |
Herkybird | 30 Mar 2012 12:46 p.m. PST |
I doubt the camel was a good comparison to the Fokker D7, the latter was a good all roung scout, the Camel was a difficult fly. You had to keep the stick pushed forward slightly just to stop the heavy tail putting you into a loop! I think the SE5a is the best all round aircraft to appear in that war. |
BlackWidowPilot | 30 Mar 2012 1:34 p.m. PST |
Hmmmm
now I am wondering how the Fokker D VIII (D8) compared to the D VII and the Camel
IIRC a very small number of D VIIIs did get into action right at the very end of the war
herkybird, you bring up a good point about the Camel being a "fierce little beast" to fly; all that torque from that rotary engine conveyed a potentially lethal flight characteristic for an inexperienced pilot to manage, while the D VII with its inline engine had no such issues
The SE5a was definitely an excellent machine (another personal favorite for WoW BTW); fast, maneuverable although that hybrid armament layout conveyed its own limitations IMHO. Now the Bristol F2B or the later Halberstadt two-seaters are another can of worms entirely; speed, agility, and a sting in the tail. What more could a WW1-generation fighter pilot have asked for? Leland R. Erickson
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Gennorm | 30 Mar 2012 2:22 p.m. PST |
Anything with a red nose. |