PilGrim | 07 Mar 2012 2:46 p.m. PST |
Pretty bored with all this now. It's like being told they're making "Waterworld 2" |
GNREP8 | 07 Mar 2012 2:59 p.m. PST |
Right now, I'm just defending my reputation, fielding questions as needed, and bothering Frothers since there really isn't much point with actually trying to counter any of this stuff y'all are talking about. ------------------- well if you go anywhere near Frothers you deserve a medal as being Brits and in some cases dead 'ard (talking like Souf London geezers, all f this and f that,when they actually work in an FE college) they are quite fothright/rude (speaking as a whining Taffy ingrate living in England) – again though if they were speaking face to face to you they'd be ok (though some would be that annoying bloke in the pub a few weeks ago who was telling everyone how he defied the cops during the riots in August – plantpot) |
Richard Gaulding | 07 Mar 2012 3:03 p.m. PST |
Most of Frothers seems to be a bunch of basically decent, foul-mouthed bastards taking the ; I'd probably enjoy it there, honestly. It's just this hardened core that has taken this stuff way beyond the pale. I mean, I have a connection with Defiance so, you know, it's understandable I'd take it personally. These guys -- I understand their basic beef (Tony/WF/DG having a poor reputation and a tendency to talk big and fail to deliver) but they've gone above and beyond. *Shrug* It's just kinda fun to poke them and see what happens. |
GNREP8 | 07 Mar 2012 3:12 p.m. PST |
Most of Frothers seems to be a bunch of basically decent, foul-mouthed bastards taking the Bleeped text; I'd probably enjoy it there, honestly. It's just this hardened core that has taken this stuff way beyond the pale. -------------------- though i work in an environment where people swear quite a bit, and have done myself, i find swearing in regard to toys to be really a bit pathetic and I bet if their mums knew they'd all be sent to bed early |
NAVARRO | 07 Mar 2012 3:23 p.m. PST |
So swearing on a professional environment is ok but on a forum for a wargaming hobby is pathetic? OOOOK |
Richard Gaulding | 07 Mar 2012 3:25 p.m. PST |
It's about the context of WHY one is swearing, not that one is swearing. Context is important, you see. It's how human communication works. |
ThorLongus | 07 Mar 2012 3:38 p.m. PST |
Gosh, water world 2 almost sounds good
.. |
NAVARRO | 07 Mar 2012 3:40 p.m. PST |
Yeah right
Swearing on a professional level is in context with what exactly? being unprofessional? But on a freaking forum about silly things that you do on your free times just for the kicks is UBER serious
whatever. |
alien BLOODY HELL surfer | 07 Mar 2012 3:45 p.m. PST |
I stand corrected Richard, pretty sure you had said you were nothing to do with them. The other points are still valid. I never read the other forums you mentioned. You seem a lot more rational there btw, and this 'I mean, I have a connection with Defiance so, you know, it's understandable I'd take it personally. These guys -- I understand their basic beef (Tony/WF/DG having a poor reputation and a tendency to talk big and fail to deliver) but they've gone above and beyond.' – I wouldn't say bar the language (which is used for just about everything on Frothers) they've gone above and beyond – remember Tony caused hassle their (and here )with sock puppet accounts. Even LAF are having fun with this, heck even TMP'ers are making fun of it. No-one has done anything nasty. I would bet quite a few people (me incuded) would by some of the DG stuff when it comes out if it is any good, especially those bugs if they get them to look good. GNREP8 I have found on the whole (with some notable exceptions here) Frothers to be a nicer bunch of people than TMP and far more honest. For example, there is no telling someone their paint job is great when it looks like it was painted by a chimp – here on TMP every paint job seems to get the 'ooh that's nice'. Oh yes, and I work in an FE college – what's wrong with that? did someone steal you favourite sheep(and the Welsh love their sheep), or perhaps you found your car with no wheels and up on bricks (it's what happens in Liverpool right) – I can make stereotypical judgements too - btw – '(though some would be that annoying bloke in the pub a few weeks ago who was telling everyone how he defied the cops during the riots in August – plantpot)' – I hope someone shops him and he gets his due. I can't be arsed to type anymore as mum (from beyond the grave) is telling me to go to bed ;-p |
Richard Gaulding | 07 Mar 2012 4:20 p.m. PST |
Except on for the most vague of details, I don't really know much about sock puppet accounts and, as it was apparently two years ago, I don't really care. As for the rest, I'm still trying to figure out how the frequent newspost showing, amongst other things, the parts to the mold and the actual mold itself don't qualify as being up front and informative? The particular thread has been posted in often, but on the main Defiance site they've been making frequent news posts about the delays.
I'm not disagreeing that the communication has been less than poor, but it hasn't been non-existent, either, and the "parroting of talking points" that I've done (on other sites) is mainly just posting news as it's posted elsewhere so people who are interested (or who have spent money on the pre-orders) will know what's going on. I provide what information I have, and I could probably push for more but so far I haven't -- I'm not an employee and I really don't have any right to any info beyond what the president of the company wants me and the other playtesters to know. Mostly, all of us, playtesters and Defiance Games employees alike, are just sick and tired of all this and want the damn Marines and the Bugs to be made. It's been old for a long time.
For my part, I'm pretty much done being snarky. I'm tired and would rather do just about anything else right now. |
alien BLOODY HELL surfer | 07 Mar 2012 4:49 p.m. PST |
that was wrong, i meant friendlier not nicer – tmp is nice as are most of the denizens |
Andrew May | 07 Mar 2012 5:19 p.m. PST |
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BlackWidowPilot | 07 Mar 2012 8:14 p.m. PST |
You know I stopped reading this thread about a month ago, came back into it tonight and instantly regretted it :(All I can say is that – despite what a lot of people seem to think about how cool it is to have a "nom de internet" – many of the intollerances and much of the harsh language would be avoided if we all used our real names. Most decent people, I have discovered, when they have to put their own name to some thoughts, get to 'own' them a bit more and are just a little more civil (and people can turn up at Salute and punch me on the nose 'coz they know who I am and where I'll be once a year so that's another good reason for me to watch what I say grin). I just wish people would do that – use their real names – on their forum posts as I think it would help. It might make people think twice about being so vocal. And nasty. Thank you Mr. Treadaway! You have said much more plainly and eloquently what I was trying to say earlier on this tread. Tony, Defiance Games and plastic marines? Aww: who cares, to be honest. Who really gives a toss. If they do ever come out and they look nice, then maybe I'll buy some. If they don't come out or they do come out late and/or look ghastly, I probably won't buy them.But, as a topic, it's probably not worth us all saying rude stuff to each other is it? Bingo.
Let's just all calm down a bit. If you don't like someone's opinions – or what they say is just too nasty or offernsive – then just do what I do: stifle them of the forum. What's that old saw, "If you haven't got anything good to say about someone, don't say anything at all?"
I don't stifle anyone; I'll read your comments, as I'm a big boy and can take care of myself.
I try and respect Bill's Rules of the House on conduct, and try my best not to take the bait that some seem Hell-bent on throwing down as a matter of apparent course. I prefer to leave the dawgbiscuits for others to enjoy
Cheers! Leland R. Erickson
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byram1 | 07 Mar 2012 9:07 p.m. PST |
5 pages of a online ing contest
how is it there are no bans being handed out? |
Lampyridae | 08 Mar 2012 1:07 a.m. PST |
5 pages of a online BLEEPing contest
how is it there are no bans being handed out? All this over a bunch of plastic toy soldiers. The most vocal detractors and supporters of which have probably not "bought" any. |
alien BLOODY HELL surfer | 08 Mar 2012 3:34 a.m. PST |
'All this over a bunch of plastic toy soldiers. The most vocal detractors and supporters of which have probably not "bought" any.' that's because at the moment you cannot buy any. Rolls eyes. |
John Treadaway | 08 Mar 2012 3:40 a.m. PST |
Thankyou Leland I would say that – for me – stifling is a very last resort. I think I've done four or five of them (without checking) on this forum. In general I like to see what people have to say and want to listen to their opinions (free speech and all that) but there are a very few that you just think to yourself after a while, "you know, there is nothing really substantive in anything you're saying and – frankly – my life's too short". If they are people that have actually done something – written, painted, organised almost anything other than just have an opinion – I can usually tolerate all sorts of strident comment and criticism but, frankly, when none of that is evident (no blogs to point to, no body of work etc) and they're unpleasant
then they get the metaphorical "ear plugs" from me, I'm afraid. As an aside, I prefer the term "ear plugs" to stiffle, really. "Stiffle" suggests you are stopping them talking (blah blah freedom of speech, shouting fire in a theatre etc etc) whereas "ear plugs" just suggests I'm no longer listening (which is nearer the truth ). An empty vessel, of course, make the greatest noise
John T |
GNREP8 | 08 Mar 2012 7:05 a.m. PST |
So swearing on a professional environment is ok but on a forum for a wargaming hobby is pathetic? OOOOK ----------- I think its the contextual aspect – bearing in mind that my experience of swearing has only ever been in law enforcement and the military, where on occasions it is in context (I'm not talking about people who pepper every sentence with such) – ie in reaction to a decision that 12 good men and women sometimes – these may merit strong language. And indeed in talking to some people on the street, speaking to them ultra-politely would be viewed as making fun of them – whereas "oi b*&^&^%$, come here I want to talk to you" is actually pitching it at the appropriate level for someone who probably knows more about the criminal justice system than many on the side in white hats. Would you speak like that to a 40 year old female motorist – no. Whereas swearing about toys – no. |
GNREP8 | 08 Mar 2012 7:09 a.m. PST |
Alien Yes I did think that perhaps I shouldn't have said the FE colleage bit as thats not fair on people working in such. Actually I work in the merseyside region so I know what you mean about the up on bricks bit! I have no problem with people commenting honestly on painting etc – whether that needs the use of the f and c words is perhaps questionable |
alien BLOODY HELL surfer | 08 Mar 2012 7:32 a.m. PST |
GNREP8 – I figured as much, my was hopefully tongue in cheek, but I had had a few so
. ;-p regards swearing, it's not for everyone, but even using the C word on frothers towards another is often jsut in jest and not meant as a harsh insult – but it can look a bit strange seeing the language used regularly there I know. PS – regards the FE college – if you were referring to lecturers I full agree (I work in IT and no longer teach) – and I hope the Welsh jibe was taken in the humour meant – from one Brit to another :-) |
GNREP8 | 08 Mar 2012 3:17 p.m. PST |
PS – regards the FE college – if you were referring to lecturers I full agree (I work in IT and no longer teach) – and I hope the Welsh jibe was taken in the humour meant – from one Brit to another :-) -------------- no problem – I've worked in England for 30 years and have heard all the Welsh jokes – though as a Taff and military history buff (of course I'm on TMP so suppose last goes without saying actually) my favourite is "The Welsh – good soldiers when led by white officers". Re the c word that is probably the one that I do think is the hardest to accept being used in jest as it has a nasty edge to it that certain other anglo-saxon expressions don't – soldiers use of the f word is of course legendary and some have the ability to construct an entire sentence out of it (the famous version that translates to "this piece of military equipment (rifle etc) no longer functions in the manner intended and is unlikely to be repairable). |
billthecat | 08 Mar 2012 5:57 p.m. PST |
I have just recieved my plastic multi-part marines
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von pumpernickel | 08 Mar 2012 9:18 p.m. PST |
Billthecat I have just recieved my plastic multi-part marines
I take it you ordered the Mantic ones then :)
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Sane Max | 09 Mar 2012 3:21 a.m. PST |
I have just recieved my plastic multi-part marines are they nice? Pat |
Marc the plastics fan | 09 Mar 2012 3:37 a.m. PST |
I have recently tried Frothers and am finding it quite fun. I don't mind the swearing, and it is clear that some people are on it just to wind each other up, but it is a nice forum for some things. |
alien BLOODY HELL surfer | 09 Mar 2012 5:51 a.m. PST |
'it is clear that some people are on it just to wind each other up' but the for the most part they all know each other and it's good natured – apart from Scorcher – we wouldn't wish him or his views on anyone. |
Insomniac | 09 Mar 2012 9:18 a.m. PST |
With people like scorcher the 'knowing each other' suggestion means that we know what he is like and react accordingly. It is the 9th of March now
any news on the release of the marines yet? |
Richard Gaulding | 10 Mar 2012 3:01 a.m. PST |
The mold cutting is complete and a test short of the plastic will be done Monday. If that works out, it's on to full production. link |
Derek H | 10 Mar 2012 4:20 a.m. PST |
Richard Gaulding wrote:
The mold cutting is complete Except it isn't. Not if that picture shows the current state of the mould. At least not if they intend to make those bases. |
Lion in the Stars | 10 Mar 2012 7:14 a.m. PST |
I think that's a comment from some idiot that knows nothing about injection-molding tools. Those round plugs cannot be for round bases, there's no gates to get plastic to the 'round bases.' If the molding company is saying that the tool is done for test shots, those 4 large pegs should be alignment dowels. |
Muerto | 10 Mar 2012 8:24 a.m. PST |
Sorry Lion, I'm genuinely not sure who you're calling an idiot – it's possible to read that you mean Derek H is an idiot because he's saying the round holes are for bases. If so, the Defiance announcement says "The four round cavities you see on the outside of the frame are 25mm bases." – which makes sense as they have what seems to be the logo printed on them. The lack of gates is then the problem Derek suggests. Also, if you are being serious, there's probably no need to call anyone an idiot. |
Sane Max | 10 Mar 2012 5:12 p.m. PST |
idiot! Pat BTW i have been shanghaid into a Bloodbowl Campaign at my club. The last official Bloodbowl box apopaears toi have bneen released in the blind spot, a coupla years after I atopped going to GW stotres, and a coupla years before they gavfe me a job (suckers!!). i was struck by how vey good the qulaity of the gw plastic blood bowl teams was,m in 1994, compared to the qulaity of the 'this is what the marines look like' 3d print defiance games keep,shoewimg to get the suckers to give tem money. has the qulaity of [plastic fgure production really not movedf forwaqrd that much in the last 20 years? May I also say this last batch of wine I made is the best so far? I can?> then I dob say that!! Pat |
Derek H | 10 Mar 2012 5:22 p.m. PST |
Lion in the Stars wrote:
Those round plugs cannot be for round bases, there's no gates to get plastic to the 'round bases.' Well done for noticing! |
Richard Gaulding | 11 Mar 2012 8:33 a.m. PST |
"Except it isn't. Not if that picture shows the current state of the mould. At least not if they intend to make those bases." Indeed, the runners to the bases apparently haven't been cut. I hadn't noticed that. That's . . . interesting.
I'll ask Tony et al about it and get back to you. |
Lion in the Stars | 11 Mar 2012 9:25 a.m. PST |
@Muerto: I followed the link to the announcement and noticed that Defiance had called those areas 'bases'. Given what other examples we've seen from Defiance showing a 'PR person' talking out their butt with no evidence to back up their statements, I chose to assume that this was yet another case of the PR not knowing what the engineers were up to. I will also add that you need to have perfect alignment in an injection mold, it's even more critical than in a metal/resin mold. |
Richard Gaulding | 11 Mar 2012 10:07 p.m. PST |
Official answer regarding the runners is "don't know. Maybe they were cut after the picture was taken." So we'll see tomorrow. |
Sane Max | 12 Mar 2012 3:44 a.m. PST |
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billthecat | 12 Mar 2012 8:41 a.m. PST |
At about 1 USD per marine, the spare parts are totally acceptable, IMHO. This is of course entirely hypothetical. |
Lion in the Stars | 12 Mar 2012 11:18 a.m. PST |
Spincast means they're not doing injection-molded plastic, then. I agree that companies doing injection-molded plastics end up with much higher initial costs, but the tools themselves last far, far longer. I've heard (seen posted here on TMP) that a spincast mold for resin minis might only last for 10 pours. At something like $1,000 USD a mold, that's a lot of overhead. |
Defiance Games | 12 Mar 2012 11:54 a.m. PST |
We're doing something a little different – it's a new plastic manufacturing process and we're very excited by it. We hope to show off the first launches very soon. In the meantime, there is a lot more injection to do! Re: the USMC frame layout. The Marine set has 24 figures in it. The price of the figures is based on things not related one iota to how many are on a frame. Or what parts are on a frame. If each frame cost $X wouldn't that mean that you would always be better off buying GW Cadians because there are 2 frames per box? Granted, you only get 10 figures for $28 USD
but that's the math. We sell 24 future USMC for $29.95 USD. That works out to $1.25 USD per figure. Or you can buy those Cadians for $2.80 USD per figure. The frame design is meant to maximize the possibilities for the ENTIRE set. So you get more legs than torsos because we wanted one set of legs to be more dynamic than the others. However, you would be unhappy if you were FORCED (like most plastic manufacturers make you) to have 1/3 of your figures with a specific set of legs. This way you have the choice of the ratio you want. If we had added another torso (taking away some other part) to the frame – it would mean that to build an appropriate squad of Marines you would have been short a standard rifle, a full face-mask head, and/or another helmet head. Frame design (how many parts and what type are on a frame) is a tricky business – and there is a lot of room for choice. We try to maximize your choice by having a good mix of necessary and optional parts. The VERY last thing we want to do is give you so little choice in your figure set that you actually have to cut something off one figure and glue something else on in order to achieve the variety you want. Such is plastic figures! In any event, I think you'll like what we came up with! We're on press AT THIS MOMENT! – so we will shortly see the results which we are crossing our fingers are good ones! Thanks again, Tony Tony Reidy Defiance Games defiancegames.com |
Defiance Games | 12 Mar 2012 12:31 p.m. PST |
Hi General Disaster – what's your name? Thanks, Tony |
Defiance Games | 12 Mar 2012 12:59 p.m. PST |
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alien BLOODY HELL surfer | 12 Mar 2012 2:03 p.m. PST |
We sell 24 future USMC for $29.95 USD USD. That works out to $1.25 USD USD per figure. Or you can buy those Cadians for $2.80 USD USD per figure. except you're not – they aren't available yet, so you are not selling them, so the fact that something will be less than half the price of a Cadian, and on showing so far, less than half the quality is kind of redundant. Glad you are going the other route on the bugs. |
Falkenhayn | 13 Mar 2012 8:22 a.m. PST |
Quote: So you get more legs than torsos because we wanted one set of legs to be more dynamic than the others. and that would be which one?Looks like alotta Flashing though |
Defiance Games | 13 Mar 2012 9:18 a.m. PST |
Hi Everyone -these are pre-production test shots. These are the first shots to come off the mold to test how it fills. The toolmaker was very happy because the whole of the mold – including the bases on the exterior of the Marine frame filled up. The flashing is caused because the pressure to fill the mold was high – so it actually pushed the mold open a little bit. This is caused by the gates – the place where the plastic flows from the runner into the actual parts were too small in some cases. It's better to go too small than too large – as it's easy to take away material and much more painful to have to weld in additional material. We're expecting another test shot on the revised tool either later today or tomorrow. Also – the plastic here is run-of-the-mill high impact polystyrene. It's white and a very translucent. The final frames will be shot in a matte grey plastic. Thanks, Tony Tony Reidy Defiance Games LLC defiancegames.com Find us on Facebook: facebook.com/DefianceGames |
GNREP8 | 13 Mar 2012 3:16 p.m. PST |
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Caesar | 13 Mar 2012 3:26 p.m. PST |
Honestly, your reasoning for not including a third torso isn't good. People would firstly rather have the third model than a backpack. You are also charging people to buy a lot of useless plastic parts, since you include plenty of options but not many models to use them on. There is a reason why other companies use two sprues for this, a figure sprue and an options sprue, to save customers from paying for a bunch of plastic pieces they won't use. You have really dropped the ball here and, despite claims that this is your first try, you have enough experience producing plastic models that you should know better. It's amateur hour with supposed professionals. |
Muerto | 13 Mar 2012 3:41 p.m. PST |
Eh. You can get a 3rd torso from somewhere else – there are kits out there with excess torsos. The style would be different, but that means they could be irregulars, in dress uniform, another force, etc. etc. etc. |
dwartist | 13 Mar 2012 3:56 p.m. PST |
two torsos fine with me
.spare parts are never 'useless'. Bring'em on! |
KenofYork | 13 Mar 2012 5:16 p.m. PST |
Nice work. Plastic is a bit tricky to make, as I am learning. I think you are on the right track and looking good. You might run a lower temp to cut down on some flash. What tonnage is the press you are using? If I overload my mold with surface area it blows open. You are right about the gates, I cut them wide open! Good luck in your projects. |