"British Arm of Service markings - North Africa 1941 " Topic

I'm hoping someone can shed light on the arm of service markings used by the motor battalions which were part of the Support Groups for British Armoured Divisions (2nd and 7th) in North Africa during 1941.

BF has just released a set of British North Africa decals for 1940 -1941 including AoS markings and I posted the same question on the FoW forum hoping for an official response. No joy there but I did get a reply from a gamer who had established that 1/ Kings Royal Rifle Corps used a 4 on a brown square around December 1940. I haven't bought the BF decals yet but as far as I can see from the picture on the FoW website there are no brown AoS markings and no number 4's.

BF is usually good on research so I'm puzzled. Does anyone know the answer?

2AD used 78 brown (1 Rangers) and 79 brown (1 Tower Hamlets Rifles) from Jan'41
source Southron Papers

Black Bull – very helpful thanks, much appreciated.

Can someone provide similar info for 7th Armoured Division during the Battleaxe – Crusader period, i.e.

1) Did 1/KRRC use 4 brown in 1941?
2) What number did 2/Rifle Brigade use?

I found this in my archives, but have no notes of its origin, so I can't say how accurate it is.

SYNOPSIS OF ARM OF SERVICE MARKINGS MIDDLE EAST TABLE II

Line Unit 1939-40 (Col 1) 1941-42 (Col 2) 1942-44 (Col 3)

a. Divisional Cavalry Regiment – 81 Green/Blue 81 Green/Blue
b. Armoured Car Regiment 14 White/Green 76 Green/Blue 76 Green/Blue
c. Reconnaissance Regiment – - 41 Green/Blue
d. Senior Armoured Brigade HQ 23 Red 71 Red 71 Red
e. 3 Armoured Regiments 24,25,26 Red 40,86,67 Red 40,86,67 Red
f. Junior Armoured Brigade HQ 27 Green 49 Green 71 Red] up to
g. 3Armoured Regiments 28,29,30 Green 65,68,63 Green 40,86,67 Red] Mar 42
h. Senior Infantry Brigade HQ ? 65 Red 65 Red
i. 3 Infantry Battalions ? 91,80,52 Red 91,80,52 Red
j. Second Infantry Brigade HQ ? 72 Green 72 Green
k. 3 Infantry Battalions ? 84,75,92 Green 84,75,92 Green
l. Junior Infantry Brigade HQ ? 58 Brown 58 Brown
m. 3 Infantry Battalions ? 60,62,89 Brown 60,62,89 Brown
n. Armd Division Motor Battalions 4 Red 60 Red, 87 Green 60 Red
o. Machine Gun Battalion – 51 Red 51 Red
p. Field Regt – Inf Divn (RA) ? 88,71,53 Red/Blue 88,71,53 Red/Blue
q. Field Regt – Armd Divn (RA/RHA) ? 77 Red/Blue 77,55 Red/Blue
r. Anti-Tank Regt – Inf Divn (RA) ? 96 Red/Blue 96 Red/Blue
s. Anti-Tank Regt – Armd Divn (RA) ? 55 Red/Blue 64 Red/Blue
t. LAA/Anti-Tank Regt – Armd Divn (RA) ? – -
u. LAA Regt – Inf Divn (RA) – 55 Red/Blue 55 Red/Blue
v. LAA Regt – Armd Divn (RA) – 54 Red/Blue 54 Red/Blue
w. Infantry Battalions – Armd Divn – - 65,68,63 Green

NPG – thanks very much for taking the trouble to post the info. It would be great to know the source, so if it does come back to you please post again.

Steve

7AD should in theory use the same as 2AD but as 7AD had been in NA for a couple of years and 2AD had only just arrived its quite possible that 7AD hadn't repainted their vehicles need decent photos to check.If you want the complete list of AoS numbers for jan'41 let me know

Black Bull – yes please, I would like the complete list. Can you post a link or do you need my email address?

Steve

2 Armd Div from 25/01/41
Div HQ 40 black
1KDG (armd cars) 40 black
HQ 1 A Bde 50 red
4 Hussars 51 red
3 RTR 52 red
53 red wasn't used at this time due to conversion of 1KDG to div recce unit
HQ 3 A Bde 60 green
3 Hussars 61 green
2 RTR 62 green
5 RTR 63 green
HQ 2 Support Group 75 brown
2 RHA 76 red/blue
102 (Northumberland Hussars) LAA & A Tk Regt RA 77 red/blue
1 Rangers 78 brown
1 Tower Hamlet Rifles 79 brown
3 Field Sqn RE 41 blue
142 Field Park Troop RE 42 blue
1 A Bde Coy RASC 81 red/green diagonal
3 A Bde Coy RASC 82 red/green diagonal
2 Support Grp RASC 83 red/green diagonal
Div Tps Coy 84 red/green diagonal
3 LFA RAMC 90 black
4 LFA RAMC 91 black
Field Hygience Sec RAMC 92 black
2 A Div workshop RAOC 100 black
two light repair sections RAOC 100 bde colour
two recovery sections RAOC 100 bde colour
two field park sections RAOC 100 bde colour
Div Provost Coy 43 black
Div Postal Section 44 black
Mobile Bath Unit 45 black
Mobile Laundry and Decontamination Unit 101 black

Black Bull – many thanks for this.

Hello! I'm having the same problems with the Battlefront BR943 British Desert Decals.

link

I was thinking in doing a Operation Batleaxe force for Early War Flames of War.

I made a list with Matildas (4th Armored; 4RTR or 7RTR i believe), 2 pdrs (3RHA?) 18/25 pdrs (3RHA?) Recce Universal Carriers (don't know from were they would have come…)

I searched and found this site with the Batle Orders, link

Black Bull our anyone else could you sent me the AoS for the 7th AD and for the 4thAD!

And the decals from Battlefront can they be used for that Operation?

The 4th Armoured brigade actually worked with the 4th Indian division so that's where any supporting arms would have come from. So that means RA regiments, not RHA.
The 7th Armoured Brigade and the support group fought separately further west. The 106th RHA was the AT regiment and the other RHA regiments had proper 25pdrs by then.

Thank you!

Do you know their AoS?

Upon checking against the CD:TOB book "Benghazi handicap" I found the following in their scenario of Capuzzo:
Matilda Tanks: 7RTR
Infantry (including carriers): 1st battalion, The Buffs.
2pdr AT: 65th AT Regiment RA
25pdrs: 31st Field Regiment RA. Note they were proper 25pdr, not 18/25pdrs. IIRC the changeover to 25pdrs from earlier guns occured when the 4th Indian division was in East Africa.

According to the info in the book the AOS is as follows:

7RTR was the second regiment in 4th Armoured Bde which was the senior Brigade in 7th Armoured Division so the Matildas would have 52 on red.

The Buffs were the senior regiment in 22nd Brigade which was independant at the time so would have used a 55 on red.

The AT guns would be 47 on red over blue, but only on the transport, not the guns.

The 31st field reg was the second field regiment so would have had 43 on red over blue, again on the transport, not the guns.

The FOW decals don't seem to cover these numbers but some may be available in the decal sheets from Skytrex.

Awesome!

Thanks!