"A Call To Arms Star Fleet" Topic

Star Fleet Universe News

THE BIG NEWS: This month is the release of Call to Arms: Star Fleet and the first of the 2500-series miniatures near the end of this month.

Starline 2500 and A Call to Arms: Star Fleet are approaching!
The joint venture between Mongoose Publishing and ADB, Inc. is moving along quite well. ACTASF should be available in stores before Christmas. This will be a beautiful hardbound rulebook with spectacular color photos of many ships.

The Starline 2500 ships are designed for use with SFB, FC, Starmada, and ACTASF, so the ship types that appear in the Squadron boxes won't change from the 2400 line (and the price for 2500s will actually go down to $29.95 USD). What will change is that the 2500-series ships will be cast in hard resin, not pewter, and they will be about 20% larger so that all the details that you asked us to add will be there!

Our European customers will have the option of ordering from Mongoose-UK so their shipping will be perhaps more "local." Both ADB, Inc. and Mongoose-US will stock the minis as will many game stores, so you should have easy access to these new, highly detailed ships.

New 2500-series Border Boxes priced at $124.95 will contain 24 ships.
New 2500-Series Fleet Boxes will be priced at $99.95 and will contain 16 ships and a quick start rulebook.

The 2400-series border boxes will also be available (at least by mail order) in 2500-series for a somewhat higher price. The 2400s are pewter; the new 2500s will be resin.

Remember that all of the current Starline 2400 blister packs, squadron boxes, fleet boxes, and border boxes will remain on sale at their current prices indefinitely.

Wow they just screwed over an entire gamer base in one fell swoop.Way to go Mongoose and ADB , I knew you both had it in you.

How did they screw anyone over?

Agreed, how so? I think this will help both companies out… I know I want to play this game now.

Not like you cant use the old ADB sculpts, I know I will buy as TBO the sculpts I have are…lacking.

Yeah, Mongoose, "thanks" for giving us what looks to be a "great" game with "fantastic" miniatures. "Way to go."

This game seems to have brought out a bunch of nay-sayers and, IMO, crybabies. There was a guy on another forum that said one of the reasons he wouldn't play the new game was they weren't going to do an unrefitted Fed CA. This amounts to 2 bumps for phasers on the rear of the saucer being omitted to make it unrefitted,

I am in agreement with with most people in thinking that this is a great move for both companies and great for sci-fi gamers. A new rules set and a whole new line of Star Trek miniatures. What's not to love????

My issue is they are releasing new mini in a totally new scale.Can't use your old stuff with the new

There was a guy on another forum that said one of the reasons he wouldn't play the new game was they weren't going to do an unrefitted Fed CA. This amounts to 2 bumps for phasers on the rear of the saucer being omitted to make it unrefitted,

I've known some, ahem, "interesting" SFB players, but that is a bit much.

A new generation of gamers who will experience Mongoose's lack of editing, quality control and subsequent dumping of the game just as they were getting into it.

I am excited for ADB and Mongoose in their joint venture, but I feel Charles Popp's pain when it comes to the new miniatures scale. I have a nice set up for SFB and Fed Com, but the new scale will be to large for me to use along with drones and fighters on my boards. If they were the same scale as the 2400s, I would have planned on buying the TCs of each race for SFB tournament play as well as some of my favorite ships to build fleets for Fed Com tournaments.

Mongoose has done a wonderful job on the new minis, especially the Romulan Hawk series (the redesigned Condor looks great). I am still planning on eventually buying some of the new ships, but at $15 for a CA it may not be as many as I had originally hoped.

I'm still playing 1st ed ACTA, doesn't matter how many times Mongoose revise it or change the universe the engine fits into, my copy still works. It's not like a computer game that gets bumped when they upgrade the OS. Personally, I'm quite looking forward to the new Trekkie version….tried SFB years ago and it left me cold, horrible great clunky thing. The ACTA engine is slick and it works.

Supplement T56a/6, Kzinti captain's coffee mugs….

My issue is they are releasing new mini in a totally new scale.Can't use your old stuff with the new

And what prevents you from using your old stuff? Stuff which is going to still be available by the way. Seriously, explain how using 'your old stuff' instead of buying the new scale equates to "screwing over an entire gamer base".

How many scales are WW2 minis available in? Does the availability of any one or a group of those scales equate to 'screwing over' all WW2 gamers?

Yeah, damn Mongoose for releasing a gorgeous line of new miniatures that in no way affects people's existing collections or ability to purchase new miniatures for their existing collections from the existing lines.

Suck it up people. You want the fancy new stuff. . . pay for it. If you're happy with your old stuff (which is still for sale), stick with it – nobody is making you spend a dime.

If they were the same scale as the 2400s, I would have planned on buying the TCs

If they had gone that route, many players would only buy a few 'fill-in-the-gaps' ships which would leave the line unprofitable. In other words, they would have to be morons to do it.

I'm bringing this line into Australia, so of course I have a less than entirely neutral perspective on the Starline 2500 range…

I have a mass of FASA minis, and a good smattering of the old 2400 range too. I must confess, I doubt any range will ever beat the FASA one for sheer, mind-boggling, shake-your-head-in-disbelief detail.

However…

Anyone remember the original Constitution class FASA released? The pylons for the nacelles were spot-on for accurate thickness. Which is a pity, because, being made from a lead alloy, and supporting a big, heavy, nacelle each, they were way too thin, and gravity bent them horribly out of shape.

And the Klingons in the FASA range? Classics! Except, perhaps, for the tiny warp engines, that didn't quite fit, and broke off all my D7's…

Personally, I'm pretty much ready for bigger scale, resin 'Trek miniatures. Mind you, I have to confess – maybe its just that my eyes aren't picking out the teeny details like they did when I was 15! The bigger the better!

Yes, I can see how people are carrying some displeasure at Mongoose's involvement in this project – they did have a reputation – one might argue, still have – for starting a project, getting all excited, and dropping it.

Maybe they're wargamers…. ;)

Consider this though: Steve Cole at Starfleet Games – the man who has kept a steady hand on the helm controls of Star Fleet Battles for 30 years – does not strike me as the sort of businessman who'd jump to a rash decision to risk SFB's good name through association with a partner who'd 'cut and run'.

Also consider: If you're wanting to model Federation, Klingon or Romulan fleets, you have nothing to fear at all; the miniatures (in boxed sets) are in production as I type, hitting the shelves in time for Christmas, and you can pick them up in separate blisters come January.

Nothing's stopping you (except the spouse,) picking up all the ships you need before "…Mongoose's lack of editing, quality control and subsequent dumping of the game…"

(Caesar – not picking on you, but your comment seems to accurately reflect the concerns of many here.)

Like Steve Cole, I am disinclined to associate my business with bad product or poor product support – I decided to go with this new line because I sense it will be a well made, well received product. Many may disbelieve that Mongoose can change after the errors of the past, but don't they at least deserve the benefit of the doubt?

And even if they do fold, so what? ADB's 2400 line of miniatures isn't going anyhere, nor are their Fed Commander and Star Fleet Battles.

And why can't you use the two scales together? Looking from top down, it just means one ship is "lower" than the other. Space has three dimensions people!

As usual. I hate the big price tag.
Is there any pics out there of these?

…does not strike me as the sort of businessman who'd jump to a rash decision to risk SFB's good name through association with a partner who'd 'cut and run'.

Certains, not his intention, but there have been a few missteps with partners along the way.

Still, will wish them the best; unlikely to find space in my store.

Doug

Richar – Indeed there are. :D

Romulan Fasthawk

Romulan Wareagle

Klingon D7

Klingon F5 Frigate

UFP Constitution Class

Littl' UFP Burke Frigate

The detail on the Klingon D-7 just blew me away.

Will there be decals for the 2500 range??

St Anselm – just in case you missed my reply in the ACTA: Star Fleet product news thread – there is much talk about new decals, but nothing solid as yet. I'll keep folk here in TMP land posted if I hear otherwise.

From what I have heard at least one place which at this time makes decals for the older Star Trek ships,will stop making decals for them.

So the problem I'll have is to find decals for the smaller Star Trek minis(including the FASA ones?

Captain Gideon

I'm one of those who hated the idea of the new scale (still do really); however, pics of the new ships are just fantastic. So what's a couple of hundred dollars? As long as they sell them individually, I can always buy one or two every month like I've been doing with the 2400 scale.

However, I've got to wait for the decals due to my lack of skills. So hurry hurry with decal sheets.

Also, has anyone had a chance to put these together? How's the fit? The resin? Etc?

jdpintex, I would check out the Fed Com board link

If you have any questions about the minis, I would contact Tony aka Scoutdad on the Fed Com board. He is the person who put these together and painted them up if I am not mistaken. He is a great guy to talk minis with.

He told me that he made the decals himself, but I am sure he is in the know about future plans for decals.

In my opinion, as far as scale goes, these will be too large to use for SFB and FC tournaments using a (42 x 30) 2 inch hex map, but they are too beautiful to pass up. From what I understand it will be cheaper on an individual ship basis to buy the box sets. I think it will break down to around $5 per mini in the box sets, whereas $15 for blisters of one to two ships depending on the class.

Caesar, it seems people never learn their history.

Mongoose is a not overly honest company who lost the original license for ACTA (Babylon 5) because they manged to hack off the company who granted the license and the creator of the show. Not to mention their numerous issues with other games (cough Starship Troopers cough) and it's derivatives. Not to mention their tendency to out and out lie about what is going on.

So far as the minis go, they are fugly and remind me of the second wave of B5 miniatures they produced in house that were so embarrassingly bad they recalled them.

I just want my stinkin' book. When the heck is this thing being released? I pre-ordered it from thewarstore.com and all the websites said it would release in Novemember. It is now halfway through December! nyone heard anything?

Try emailing Neal. Maybe you'll have better luck then me. He has ignored me 3 times in the emails I have sent. Even tho according to the website its important to them and will respond quickly. My days of being a warstore customer are over. I'll now be buying a crap ton of ACTA SF from another source.

The Mongoose site still has a release in November. But on "Planet Mongoose" in their second article "To Cloak or Not to Cloak" they say:

"In Other Star Fleet News
Our chaps in the casting facility have been working day and night (literally) to meet all your orders. We are now looking at starting to ship A Call to Arms: Star Fleet on the week of the 12th, though gamers in the US may see the rulebook a week before that."

With any hope, tomorrow will be the day!

Bill

Also, I have always had great service from Neal at "The War Store!" Shipments were quick and he was always very accomadating when orders were updated or changed. Like all distributers he is at the mercy of the shipping company. Especially when it comes to pre-orders! Even Mongoose shows November as their release date! And we know it has come and gone. Maybe Santa will bring it with him when he makes his rounds on Christmas Eve! Have you been naughty or nice?

Bill

I'm with Dice Monkey

John T

"Mongoose is a not overly honest company who lost the original license for ACTA (Babylon 5) because they manged to hack off the company who granted the license and the creator of the show."

I found it less than humorous when Matt managed to off JMS, JMS posted about it online and Matt flat out denied that it ever happened in a public exchange with me here on TMP.

"Not to mention their numerous issues with other games (cough Starship Troopers cough) and it's derivatives."

You know, I can understand a bad business decision, but a string of them, all pointing to the very person who is pointing at everyone else…?

"Not to mention their tendency to out and out lie about what is going on."

That's one of the things I'll never get about Matt's fans. He is constantly changing his story, tells you one thing and then the next day changes it, goes to the website and forums to remove/change prior comments, deletes threads, etc. and Mongoose fans are always going on about how open he is. How many of us remember the photo swap he pulled with Battlefield Evolution prepaints, making it seem like everyone on the forum was complimenting the production junk instead of the preproduction promises? Or deleting posts of people who had legitimate gripes?

A short sighted company that makes money by producing quick-buck license products that won't get supported in the long run. A company that runs foul of nearly every business relationship it has had. A company that sells for a premium price low quality products and openly refuses to invest in quality control, openly says that editors are not needed… Basically says "I have no respect for you or pride in my work, just give me money."

I think ADB made a big mistake partnering with Mongoose.

I've never had any problems with Neil, I was just griping about Mongoose! And from what I'm reading I may have made a mistake ordering the book in the first place. I guess I didn't learn my lesson after purchasing Victory at Sea several years ago…

I think the difference this time is that it appears that Mongoose cannot make a move without ADB approving it. All of the minis, ship stats and rules have to get approved by ADB and it appears (especially with the ship models) that they went through many iterations before being satisfied.

I also suspect that the licencing for this game is a heck of a lot less than for previous products – and there is already a wealth of ships/races to adapt – no need for Mongoose to go out on a limb and create anything.

Anyway I know a lot of people have been burned by Mongoose in the past. I have not (bought Victory at Sea and in no way feel ripped off), and hopefully I won't.

Can't wait for my book to arrive!

I'm ordering the book, 2 fleets and the cards through my FLGS via e-figures today.

It appears you folks haven't been looking at their forums. Definitely delayed into January in the US, and the UK guys who've had the books have found enough errors already that Mongoose is scrambling to do an online "clarifications" document. Most of it appears to be simple typos, but there's a hilariously idiotic problem with the way they calculated total damage when translating from FedCom to ACTA – it's supposedly a multiple of your FC hull+cargo box count, which makes freighters the most durable ships in the game by a big margin. How that one got past the math boys at ADB is a mystery, but it needs to be redone from scratch, especially since who tows who in a tractor link is based on total damage, which has nothing to do with FC movement cost/hex or engine output.

On the plus side, the reviews of the actual minis have sounded okay so far. The resin is very soft but the detail is there, which is better than they managed on the Noble Armada resins. No reports of sags or major miscasts, and the cost on the big fleet boxes is actually quite good if you have a use for that many ships. OTOH, prices on the individual Mongoose blisters are so high they made me go back and reexamine ADB's sinkers – suddenly they don't seem all that expensive at all. Maybe that was Steve Cole's evil genius plan all along? :)

EDIT: Correction, some complaints about pitting and flash way down the thread over here:

TMP link

Still doesn't sound terribly unhappy. Be interested to see some painted figs done by people other than Mongoose.

Rich, check out CptKremmen's review here.
A miscast warp nacelle and bubbles that needed filling. I really had hopes, maybe these are teething problems but I think they are more like typical Mongoose problems.

TMP link

Beat me to it.

Well, like I said, he didn't sound terribly upset about it even after closer examination. A few bubbles in resin is more common than not IME – the mold slip is more serious but he made it sound not too bad. I've read a couple of other reviews elsewhere that were generally positive, if not glowingly so. The squadron boxes appear to having some packing issues, but so far all the reported ones I've seen involve leaving out a small ship for a larger one, so at least they're screwing up in a favorable direction.

The amount of bubbles and miscasting is dissapointing, and yes somewhat reminiscent of their performance with the old Babylon 5 ships.

A real shame as the actual original models are beautiful. Just need some more attention to casting quality control. Guess they have a pile of interns doing the casting…

I have just added pictures of all my models on the other thread.

I am NOT a good modeller but am reasonably happy with the finished results. The models are still a bit rough in places but that is after a lot of carving about.

For playing wargames they are nice big well detailed models if somewhat badly cast. For a perfectionist the quality control is just not up to it…

Andy

I have just added pictures of all my models on the other thread.

I am NOT a good modeller but am reasonably happy with the finished results. The models are still a bit rough in places but that is after a lot of carving about.

For playing wargames they are nice big well detailed models if somewhat badly cast. For a perfectionist the quality control is just not up to it…

Your paint jobs look fine to me, but yeah, I wouldn't call that adequate QC on some of the Fed ships – the miscast engine on the cruiser is particularly glaring. The Klinks either came out of the mold better or your paint job is hiding any casting issues more effectively.

It baffles me that even today, the best (IMO) Trek minis ever produced are the old FASA range – why can neither ADB nor Mongoose can match their level of detail or quality of casting with three decades having gone by? And the second-place slot is probably taken by a Shapeways offering – Charles Oines' ships are "inspired by" rather than canonical, but they're still darned pretty not-Trek:

link

Matt brags about the size of his house and his Jag, but he can't be bothered to spend some money on making sure his customers have gotten the quality products they paid for.

'Making sure' is more than 'spend some money'; it takes some serious skill and commitment as well. Nothing I'd claim to have; you'll notice I'm not trying to run a company.

The weird thing is, I've had contacts with some of the folk that work in and with Mongoose, and skill and commitment are not lacking in them, from what little I've seen.

Sad, really.

Doug

Hi, TheBeast. Quality control has always been Mongoose's biggest problem, from poorly cast miniatures to lousy prepaints that sunk their first attempt at miniatures to Matt's insistence that editors are not needed.

I can't imagine the amount of money Mongoose has had to spend on damage control and replacing faulty products as well as damage to their reputation.
Quality control is a proven money saver and even the smallest of companies manage to have it to some degree.

Agreed the feds were worse than the klingons. There were a few big bubbles in the klingon casts on the dome right at the front of the ships, but it is a very regular shape and was easy to fill with green stuff.

Whilst it is a little annoying, I must say I am glad I bought the models and will be buying more.

Though I am going to be checking them much more thoroughly for miscasts before I start assembling them :)

I've had 3 of 5 minis in the Klingon box have moderate to serious issues. I'm not terribly impressed so far.

Granted, on 4 of the 5 minis, the detailing came out pretty well, and it's well beyond anything I've ever seen in metal minis, but come on, spend some time on QC before shipping product.