"Flats project begins - The Battle of Plataea" Topic

Apologies for not realising there was a Flats message board …

In case anyone missed the message I posted elsewhere, I recently took over a flats collection with connections to the early days of ancients (on the proviso that I made some effort to get them back into use – or sight, at least) …

With the up coming Society of Ancients Battle Day being Plataea, and there being a fair quantity of Greeks and Persians, I am looking at refurbishing and finishing a couple of armies, creating terrain and adapting rules to suit the historical battle.

Blog: link

How best to base them (yes, I appreciate that depends on the rules – but aesthetics will play an important part in the decision process)?
Which rules (I am not committed just to a retro approach)?
Battlefield – are there practcal implications (step hill seem popular back then, but trees seem a mix of flat and round)?
What else?

Recognise these?
Steve mentioned (a company called?) Kieler ..
kieler-zinnfiguren.de
Anyone had an experience with them?

Generally, my 'googling' doesn't come up with pictures or prices as easily as it does with round wargames figures ….

Your thoughts would be appreciated

Phil Steele
The Society of Ancients
soawargamesteam.blogspot.com

they are nice in an ancient way…

how about Lost battles – a fairly new system for some old figures…

or use rules that date to the sixties/ early seventies.

You should have no trouble dealing with Kieler Zinnfiguren. You may want to contact them for listings which can easily be translated using an English/German dictionary.

How about an Ancient version of Bob Cordery's Portable Wargame?

Phil,

Go to the British Flat Figure Society's website ( britishflatfigures.org.uk ) and then to its Forum. Lots of help there, but if you were to join the Soicety the "members only" section of the Forum will help you learn about Kilia zinnfiguren. In fact, there is a listing of every set ever produced by that decades-old company.
As far as rules to use, Neil Thomas' Ancient and Medieval Wargaming is a "new" set with a retro feeling to it, but for the real deal get a copy of Donald Featherstone's War Games ( available as a reprint ) and take a look at Tony Bath's rules for Ancient wargaming. They would go well with those flats of yours.
By the way: how did you come by the flats? Any interest in selling them?

Scott Johnson
BFFS member and also a Society of Ancients member
collector of Kilia flats

Interesting thinking Maddaz and Margard.

Looking back at the 60's stuff for impressions of the Tony Bath game, I was quite interested in the Joseph Morschauser gridded wargame which stylistically has a look all of its own.

All organised with greater or lesser sized squares …

And I could either run Lost Battles next to Phil Sabin at the BattleDay or go with Bob's game and take it to COW ?? In either case I think there might be some head scratching :)

The obvious characteristic with flats is that there are few issues fitting them close together. I'm not actually sure at this stage what difference that makes.

Morschauser was a modernist, I guess, using trays – Bath used an adapted tray so he could take figures off. I used to think taking off casualties was important (i.e. progressively reducing the apparent working mass of the body of soldiers). Hmmm.

Normal terrain (with 'round' trees etc.) or flat terrain? – Not that there will be too much at Plataea, I guess …

Phil
PS thanks Cyrus (my German isn't too bad but it's reassuring to see you imply there aren't major issues to worry about)…

Hi Scott ..

They have been passed into my care through the Gentlemen Pensioners connection (see David's blog link )

I have an original copy of Tony's Society of Ancients rules (basically the unsimplified version of the rules Featherstone gives) … I am more interested in creating a treatment that brings the concepts up to date (and gives us a fair chance of a plausible 'Battle of Plataea' presentation) than engineering a genuine 'Retro' game.

Nothing wrong with a retro game per se, but I wouldn't do that for the BattleDay, as the history is the 'star'. However, the history being the star, the theme is how do various rules approaches reflect that. So starting with what will have been the grand-daddy of all the other games on show might be a valuable excercise.

Re disposals, I'm more the caretaker than the owner of course – however if the rationalisation process suggest we go that way, I'll let you know (swaps might be a neutral idea of course …)

Nice to meet you, Scott

Phil
soawargamesteam.blogspot.com

Looks like you're on track, Phil. And most of the painting already done. Wouldn't sweat the basing, simple does it so long as it works with your ruleset of choice. As for the terrain, probably arid and relatively flat, but you've got a river near the Persian camp and higher ground adjacent to the Greek deployment area if I recall correctly.

Fun project. I look forward to following your progress, culiminating in the battle. Just don't let Kilia hoarder Scott swindle you out of your nice flats. ;-)

Regards,
Steve

"Just don't let Kilia hoarder Scott swindle you out of your nice flats. ;-)"

Ah, Steve knows me too well!

Actually I should have said "professional collector of Kilia flats." Sounds almost friendly.

Phil: you're in the U.K., but the Terrain Guy here in the USA has some really great battle mats for war games tables that you might want to take a look at especially his "desert" one. Quick to place on a table and roll up afterwards. Good luck on Battle Day!

Tony Bath's slotted bases were a great technical breakthrough. I've been planning to bring them back for my TYW flat armies. Unfortunately the best maaterial for slotted bases was flat green blotter paper.

I think blotter paper has gone the way of the typewriter. Only Don Featherston and a handful of others still use the latter, and office supply stores don't seem to have botter paper anymore. I think it was to blot ink pens.

Pat Condray