"Why is The Wargames Foundry so disliked?" Topic

Ok, I know that their minis are pricey and that they haven't come out with any new merchandise in long while, but the figs are mostly gorgeous. I'm wondering what it is they've done to earn the ire of so many posters on TMP...

Ax

Ok, I know that their minis are pricey and that they haven't come out with any new merchandise in long while,

nuff said.

C'mon now, $84 for a WWI tank is an absolute bargain!!

1) Because they persist in this ridiculous "pre-cast" ficiton instead of just releasing the ranges slowly over time.

2) Because they don't charge North American customers a fair exchange price on their figures.

3) Because they don't treat Canadians and Americans as separate customers.

4) Because they have been systematically screwing their distributors.

Lets face it, Foundry hasn't been the same since Bryan got his head caught in the spin caster...

When I first got back into the hobby after a 10 marital hiatus, the average price of decent figures was around $.90. Wargames Foundry sold for over a dollar, but individually priced and sold. Well, they were GOOD, so I bought what I could when I could. They also had very large ranges which were ALMOST complete. Really, no range is ever complete. There are always the 1809 Bavarian Hussar Farrier Sergeant and Suttleress that the completists whine about when they are missing. Then along came Guernsey Foundry, with wonderful Wild West, Seven Years War odd uniforms, etc. Suddenly, all these wonderful minis just plain disappeared. Prices shot up, figures became available only in blisters containing 8 figures. Then the blister price remained the same, but the quantity became 6, then 5, then 4... Ranges were re-released with ony half the figures available. One perfect example is the Copplestone SYW Prussian Grenadier without lapels, I love the charging figure, and in a pinch, the march attack figure. The SYW range now does not include them, but does have the grenadier without lapels firing. No command, no bandaged head, no waving hat.

Then there was the "buy shields in a separate blister" fiasco, and they acted like they were doing you a favor.

Command packs now have 6 figures, ONE musician, ONE standard bearer, ONE offiver, a priest, a chariot repairman, and a philosopher.

"Re-released pre-casts". Why not just issue the damn figures, and keep them in production?

The ACW line is "temporarily" retired. This really means that the moldw will be rtedesigned so that a blister will have 6 infantry for $18 instead of 8 figures, since a blister contains a full mold.

Finally, there is Bryan Ansell's published stated belief that ALL manufacturers charge too little, and that it is his mission in life to raise prics globally.

The quality is great. I don't even mind high prices, and even the OFM has occasionally splurged on a full price blister. (I fell better now, having confessed that.)

What does bother me is that I feel that BA has a contempt for his customers, and does not bother to hide it. He thinks he can get away with all kind of stupid policies, and the Foundry Fanboys will all chant "There are no figures but Foundry! SLAP! Thank you sir, may I have another?"

Does that answer your question?

The proof reading of the above screed is left as an exercise for the student.

The Grammer and Speling (double sic) Fascist (tm)

I've ordered from them three times, and each time something went wrong. That, and they're twice as expensive as figures are - in my opinion - better. And three times as expensive as cheap figures like Old Glory.

There's also frustration regarding unfinished ranges, the pricing, ramage in the fantasy packs, the pricing, the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't range lineup, the pricing, and the pricing.

They are magnificient figures, and they cover topics that I would never have considered to be interesting--until I saw the figures. If I were to embark on a skirmish campaign, I'd probably look at Foundry first. But I'd wait to buy them until they were on sale. I'd never consider Foundry for figures for a mass battle army, even if they were on sale.

I think their website is quite nice as well, long on eye candy and interesting articles. But the prices are like a cold shower.

You are complletely right John the OFM.

I like Foundry. They have some very nice figures and when you buy the horde deals they aren't that expensive.

I will agree with some of the above comments about it being frustrating to not have some of the figs you need, and their command packs are quite silly at times, Roman legionnaire command with 2 or 3 Aquilifiers in it beggars description. Overall however I have been quite satisfied when I have given them my custom.

I think also what gets the flames going is, some one will comment "you get what you pay for" which is trying to excuse the prices ignoring all the other aspects. They have wonderful products SOME OF THE BEST, NOT ALL OF THE BEST. Paying through the nose only insures a nose bleed.

For all their many sins, Foundry plyed a big part in raising the expectations as far as quality of product is concerned. We have them to thank (partly) for the high quality of Crusader, Copplestone, A&A, Gripping Beast etc. etc.

I ordered from them at least ten times and never got the "free" pack and ended up with duplicates and so on. The last time I ordered was when they charged me twice for one order and wouldn't deal with it in spite of letters, e-mails, etc. Had to have my credit card company deal with it and they got no response either so they just credited my account and did whatever they do to Foundry. The only reason I did that order in the first place was it was a special for mail=order customers only with all sorts of freebies and good prices. Needless to say, no freebies and the above nightmare was what I got. I truly do not understand this company. They seem bent on running off their customers. I went to them for their sculptors and when their sculptors left I left.

"For all their many sins, Foundry played a big part in raising the expectations as far as quality of product is concerned. We have them to thank (partly) for the high quality of Crusader, Copplestone, A&A, Gripping Beast etc. etc."

Did they raise the expectations of quality, or just get lucky enough to hire the wonderful sculptors who then left the Evil Ansell to start most of those OTHER fine companies (and you left out Artizan, one of the BEST ex-Foundryites!)?

I agree with most of the comments I've seen so far. FOr me its the synergy between price and the perception of value of the figures. They just don't match up. last year I started exploring the late 15th C period Medievals. I bought a pack of crossbowmen from their range,and was pretty dissatisfied with what I recieved. Old sculpts (old as in ex-Citadel from the mid-80s) that were getting long in the tooth, casting wasn't perfect (and I expect that from Foundry since they charge a premium for their figures), and there are too many BETTER figures on the market; why should I spend approx $2.25 per figure (that's WITHOUT shipping!) when at the time I could get figures from Front Rank at around $1.40 with shipping (with the current exchange rate I think its hovering around $1.70-80 or so, but still a good deal as that includes shipping) that are BETTER?

I haven't bought a single Foundry pack since then, and have no intention of buying any others.

On a side note, it appears that Foundry is gaining popularity with the fantasy crowd, where their prices might not be so bad. Even then, though, I think there's better options (like Reaper, which are infinitely more useful than Foundry's vampire elfs or Landsknecht orcs any day).

Damon.

The Foundry Sikh War figures are very nice. They've also priced themselves right out of my budget. Darn shame, the ones I have are great figures.

John the OFM, you're getting sloppy my friend.;) For Shame. However, when one looks at the number of posts you write not just on TMP, WABlist, moderate and write on PiratesWargames as well as many, many, other forums I think the above spelling and grammar glitches can be pardoned.

NAH! :P

"I know that their minis are pricey and that they haven't come out with any new merchandise in long while"

So do I :-)

In my opinion, Neville Carre was the soul behind Wargames Foundry, he was efficient and knowledgeable, (albeit a Manchester United suporter!) and was THE person to talk to about orders, figures, books. He was always of assistance and he was well mannered.

When Foundry returned to Nottingham, Neville was deemed to be not so important in the enterprise..mind you so were the sculptors, so Neville left, The Perrys left, Copplestone left etc etc....and the Precasts started.....and in my point of view it has all gone to to the dogs since then....

At one time,Ed Patrick of the former Pendragon miniatures,had the North American "franchise" on Foundry.One of his casual employees was a member of my game club.We used to get great deals on Foundry because of this.One Historicon,I even displayed and sold some of my own Foundry figures out of their display case. In comes Bryan,the Lord of Chaos.He completely screws Ed out of his franchise,indirectly screwing me in the process.Yes,I have met Mr Ansell,and I think in the long run,Ed was better off.

I sure like their Darkest Africa stuff. There's just nothing out there comparable to all those British Character figs - love them all ...!

But for everything else I can't really hope to get Foundry - and I do all right financially ...

For me, the biggest problem was when they stopped selling individual figures. I mainly buy for role-playing, and I tend to want specific figures.

"after a 10 marital hiatus"

You get around, OFM :-) Take a lot of trips to Vegas, or what??

Adster... Crusader, Copplestone Castings, Renegade, etcetera, are all lead by EXPERTS and masters in the field. That's why the were called by Bryan Ansell to be in his company.

Not the other way around.

You make it sound as if they were "lovingly taught" there and The Foundry made them the great sculptors they are now.

Please. That's a ridiculous statement.

Copplestone's sculpts were as good as in the Grenadier days that they are now, so please, please please... Spare us the "propaganda".

As Nazrat pointed out, you are being misinformed.

Now, to address the topic at hand: The reason people dislike them is the "pre-cast" scam, the "less figures bigger prices" scheme, and the continually revised prices and "deals".

Even Hordes ceased to be attractive a few months ago. Some are still good value for money, other are simply too expensive for the goods offered.

OK, Hacksaw, you got me. It should be "after a 10 *year* marital hiatus". I will say nothing about that decade except to say that like Neville Chamberlain, I found that appeasement does not work.

Seconding mweaver's (I'm going out of teh office tomorrow, be patient, my fellow gamer) comments and the "fantasy rammage" one...

I always awanted to buy the Revenant Elves, for they would be perfect for the "deviant" Mordheim setting I had planned, long before I actually bought the game...

But so many cherubs and only some ten elf character figures in "deal" with the recently revised plan, made me go:

"Yeah, right... Maybe that recaster bub doesn't sound so ratty to me now. If I wrote 'im saski for these specific buggers..."

Too bad, really. I could use their Renaissance looks in a more "cohesive-looking Olde Worlde", instead of having "pre-saxon dark pointyears fighting 16th Century German mercenaries"...

Oh, well.

Their loss, really.

So, the OFM is a tried and true Bachelor!

Ah, that explains so many things... =D

Swing it, baby!

In short, the "spin" or as some might say, the lying. I don't mind them charging what they think the market can bear but I do not like it at all when they say there's been no price rise and then the number of figures in a pack drops. That's lying.

ALL I CAN SEE ON THIS POST IS THE SAME SCAM I'VE LISTENED TO FOR YEARS CONCERNING THE "NOTTINGHAM CONNECTION" - WHAT A SCAM! i HAVE A MONGOL ARMY, ENGLISH CIVIL WAR, NAPOLEONICS, RENAISSANCE - ALL IN 25MM JUST TO MENTION A FEW, NOT ONE OF THEM BEING SCULPTED BY THE GREAT MARKETING GENIUS WHO SHOW YOU BEAUTIFULLY PAINTED MINIS AND IN THE END I'LL PUT MY ARMIES UP AGAINST ANY. OF ALL THE MAJOR COMPANIES THAT MARKET TO US I HAVE FOUND EXCEPT IN THE RARE CASE NONE ARE ANY WORSE OR BETTER THEN ANY OTHER - IT IS CALLED PAINTING AND BASING - THAT'S WHY I LIKE AS MANY VARIENCE AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE I DON'T LOOK AT "A FIGURE" - i WANT TO SEE UNITS AND ARMIES THAT LOOK LIKE UNITS AND ARMIES FULL OR ANIMATION, MOVEMENT AND YES - EVEN SOMETIMES AWKWARD - THAT'S WHAT HUMANS LOOK LIKE WHEN THEY MOVE ACROSS BATTLEFIELDS - WISE UP GUYS - IRREGARDLESS OF THE FIGURE IT'S HOW YOU PAINT AND MOUNT THEM THAT COUNT - I HAVE A UNIT OF FOUNDRY NAPOLEONIC CHASSEURS THAT ARE BEAUTIFUL - I HAVE ANOTHER UNIT FROM A COMPANY THAT WILL REMAIN UNMENTIONED THAT I'VE ACTUALLY HAD PEOPLE PICK THEM UP AND SAY "WHEN DID THE PERRY'S DO THESE?" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
THE SECOND UNIT COST ME ABOUT HALF AS MUCH - BOY DO I WISH I HAD A BUNCH OF CHEAP LAND TO SELL SOME OF YOU GUYS

Let this be a lesson to everybody. Once you have to go back and correct your grammar and spelling, all hell breaks loose. Had I proofread my original post, I would not be in this situation. Here we have a perfectly nice Foundry rant going, and I have to distract people with explanations of my personal life.

PRAISE FOR FOUNDRY....

As someone fairly new to the hobby I don't have all the baggage some people seem to carry around from them good ol' days. But here are my experiences...

I have purchased a fair chunk of Foundry figures and paints in recent months and got a great deal on them every time. All my orders have been post free to the US. I have receieved a total of 10 free blister packs/pallettes, free steel pikes and obtained several hordes of 70-80 figures for less than $100. One horde came with over 90 figures! That's just over a buck per figure! And you can call them toll free from the US.

From my point of view Foundry have the widest range of consistently high quality figures you can get, even after all the years of apparent inactivity. Their service is great. The guys are friendly and the website has a bunch of extra free stuff including painting guides and historical summaries.

I am glad that Foundry is still going strong and sure, I'd like to see some new ranges, but I am not at all bothered by whether they call something a "pre-cast" or a "re-cast" or a "preview" or whatever. Seems like a petty thing to get upset about. And as for a rip-off - I don't get it - got ot the website - there is the pack, there is the picture, there is the price - it is totally up front. To call it a rip off is a bit of a stretch. I do agree a few of the bigger models are overpriced, but overall I find Foundry to be excellent value for the quality. I think there is a tendency to take them for granted.

Does nobody else feel this way or are Foundry universally despised?

Hey John (the OFM, who else?) watch your hart, these topics are not good for your health! I suspect it's this Brian character who launches them...

Rudi, it only kills you if you keep it bottled up. Like I did for 10 years. :^)

Universally despised. And for the rescord, sales aren't all that great. My understanding from ex-employees is that they have plummeted. But Bryan is very wealthy and he continues to fund the beast.

Thanks,

John

I had standing orders for both the Pirates and Darkest Africa ranges and felt I got a good deal. The exchange rate change and the generally rising prices have put Foundry into ridiculous territory. The proliferation of companies should help to put pressure on prices and keep profits in the reasonable range. Bad businessmen can profit in a noncompetitive market, but will fail when against competition.

I guess we have to hope for the Chinese economy to crash so commodities prices will come down.

SIXTHLANCERS SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TELL YOU THAT WHEN YOU POST A LONG SCREED ALL IN UPPER CASE WITH NO PUNCTUATION AND DUBIOUS SPELLING AND FRACTURED GRAMMER PEOPLE DISMISS YOU AS AN IGNORANT PIECE OF WOMBAT EXCREMENT.

OH YEAH I FORGOT - "HA HA HA".

The thing with foundry prices is not that they don't tell you up front what they cost - everyone does that. It is the fact that 1) they charge an unfair exchange price (Their UK price converted to US dollars is much less than $18.00); and 2) they have steadily been reducing the number of figures in each pack (without mentioning it - just trying to slip it by while at the same time claiming they are not increasing prices).

The fact that occassionally people get extra figures or "deals" hardly makes up for the fact that the official policy is to screw the customer.

From what I hear, B.A. is spending too much time being a grand-father and not enough time managing his business. I would be happy to take over management if he can no longer handle it!

Altfritz,

"the official policy is to screw the customer"

Seems a bit harsh? Any evidence to support? A leaked document, or conversation with staff for example? It is not my experience at all.

Or is this just that you object to their price policy? As I said before. Over 3 orders the price per figure has worked out at very good value for me, even compared to Old Glory.

I'd like to believe all these rants, but my (repeated) experience is quite different.

So now John has a hart? Where does he keep it? I hope he feeds it properly.

(Now I have a vision of him as a kind of American Steve Irwin, bottle-feeding woodland animals in his garden, while wearing incredibly tight shorts.)

I'd say that their line is huge and awesome.

Having said that... I've placed orders with them and every stinkin' time they screwed it up. I would have to badger them to straighten it out and this always took at least 3 months. I've given up with them. I buy from a middle man and let them deal with Foundry if/when I have oodles of money to burn.

They've never screwed up any of my orders, I must say.

While I agree with the haters to an extent (prices/reducing numbers in packs, etc), I've never had any beef with them over their service.

It has always been excellent, and stuff has arrived the day after I ordered it pretty much without fail. They often throw in some kind of pack (or packs) that I didn't order (but is related to what I did order) too.

Elcid1099: I guess you just haven't been a Foundry customer long enough.

You obviously haven't been there to watch as they reduce the number of figures in a pack from 8 to 7, then from 7 to 6 and in some cases 5. All with no announcement except at the end of it all to trumpet how they haven't had a price increase in years.

Nor were you there to wonder why a 7.50GBP (equalling $12-14.00US) should actually be priced at $18.00US for North Americans. And with postage on top of that!

And I guess you missed how the Horde deals have steadily dwindled from 80 to 60 or 50 models. The Orc deal is especially notorious: it downsized over the course of a month or so from 60 to 40 to 30 (IIRC - someone correct me if I'm wrong on the details here).

And I guess you haven't watched as they show off lines that are "newly painted" but otherwise unavailable or not for sale.

All of the above are not just random events but a consistent and continuous policy. What other name could you give to it other than "screwing the customer".

I don't screw around with Black Mambas, that's for sure. I thought Steve soiled himself a week or so ago when he had one by the tail and couldn't let go. The only wild animals I deal with are Conan (aka "Bad Dog!") and Natasha (aka "Stinky") When I DO wear my incredibly tight shorts, they like to press wet cold dog noses to the back of my knees while I am painting. Usually eyebrows and buttonhole lace. Natasha also likes to climb up in my lap when I am typing.

Altfritz, you forgot that they are required to deduct the VAT on shipments to the USA, but somehow forget. (I had to add that. Enough of the personal stuff.)

Their service used to be top notch. But that was in the days when Neville Carre was with them. In my last order from them direct they sent my SYW Prussian Gunners instead of SYW Russian Characters. Prussian-Russian, what's the difference, eh? I guess if I paint them up in green coats no one will notice the buckets and ramrods they are carrying. And my last order throught a store was totally f**ked up - they refused to take the stock back, leaving the store to sell all this stuff they didn't order and didn't want, and forcing them to re-order the missing blisters.

Altfritz,

I did not see all the changes you mention, but I do know that prices for goods and services never stay the same.

When I was a lad in the UK I got 5p (7 cents) from my dad for the ice cream van and I could by a feast of sweets (candy, for those stateside). 5p doesn't go very far now. Should I be ranting so angrily at the ice cream van driver?

As for the delivery issues I haven't had a single problem. Every package was in my mailbox in Texas within a week of the order being submitted. Sorry you had some problems. I have had a similar problem with other manaufactures. Very frustrating but it didn't sour me on them. It happens.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

Started collecting French Napoleonics for 1 year, heres what I came accross during that time.

Guns - Changes from a gun with different barrels and 6 crew seperate. Prces rises to £8.50 so £17.00 a gun with less crew. Guns change - gun has 1 barrel crew seperate.
Guns change again - Gun and crew together Horrah!

Command - Less and less figures 8 to 6 with 4 muscicians so you need a pack per regiment £8.50 for An officer, standard & Muscian.

Cavalry go from 4's to 3's price goes £6.50 to £8.50 so now have to order spare's to get that 1 figure needed.

etc....

Ancients the same as above really. The worst is the "we now supply the same one piece figure in 12's" Yippie. Now in 8's for £8.50

There whole pack system is silly. The get 3 packs for £20 seems better but when you need any specialist troop (eg elites or command) your stuffed.

I dont know where they are going with their ranges next, but they will go down the toilet the rate they are going. Friend who work for them have said they are in trouble.

We should start a bidding war to buy out Bryan Ansell and get Foundry doing what it does best. It should only cost 15 packs to buy Foundry in 5 years time at there current rate (with 1 figure in each pack!)

The sad decline of Foundry is a well documented tale
of madness and despair.

I did actually buy something of theirs the other day. A heavily discounted ECW mortar blister at a shop dumping their product(see references to attitude to distributors above).

I remember when that Perry sculpt was released, wait for it...1986. Thats when they were still 'wargames foundry' and they made and sold excellent wargames figures to wargamers at reasonable prices.

The latest eccentricity is the 're-released pre-casts'

how can you re-release a 'pre-cast'?.

The lame logic behind the precast was this story about how the casters spun the moulds... to prove they worked ..limited run..blah blah..wont be any more till range completed..we only release completed ranges..blah blah.

well, apparently not.

How about a 2-horse limber for $36, to go with your $84 tanks?