"Khurasan previews Jasmine Throne Foreign Battalions" Topic

Really cool, but Centipede looks like it will be a terror to cast up.

"They also use Nova Respublik vehicles refurbished by MDMS (more on that later as well)."

How much later are we talking? It sounds fantastic since I am going for a ragtag warlord look to my vehicles something akin to AK-47 Republic. Are we talking different armor and weapon mods?

How many of those leave the planet's atmosphere and travel to other celestial bodies? wink

Those astronomers and astrophysicists haven't actually traveled out there either, though I am sure they would like too. I don't see how guesses in areas outside their expertise are any more likely.

Here's one example of the recent trend in thought about spacefaring alien types:

link

It's just one example -- in fact many other scientists are coming to the same conclusion, including Steven Hawking

That article only discusses their mental traits, not physical ones. Two totally different issues- a species might be mentally like us and yet be extremely different physically. Look at dolphins compared to chimps (or humans)- dolphins are highly intelligent, on par with chimps, yet resemble chimps no more then a chimp resembles a bird. There are common elements, but they are mostly internal (same kinds of organs) or related to a very generic bilateral body plan.

The only mention I can see in the article about what aliens would look like is a throwaway line about 'Darwinian evolution is really quite predictable'. First, this assertion is going to make any biologist/zoologist/etc laugh out loud in disbelief- it is silly and absurd simplification. Most biologists would probably argue the opposite- if you reset evolution to 'day zero' of single cell life on Earth and let it run again, you'd most likely get a totally different set of creatures then we have today- and no humans or humanoids.

The article is also very conceited in thinking that Darwinian evolution leads to intelligence- a sample size of one 'experiment' (planet Earth) is not scientifically conclusive. And even if intelligence is 'inevitable', that doesn't mean the intelligence life will look particularly like us. Most of our physical traits are not evolutionarily linked to our intelligence. We walk upright since our stance evolved to help us spot predators in open savannah, our hands and thumbs evolved earlier to help us climb, we lack body hair since we evolved in a warm climate, etc. All these things make us humanoid, but none of these things make us intelligent.

Furthermore, it is impossible to make guesses about what natural selection pressures will be present in an alien environment, other then the fact that it will probably not be 100% the same as on Earth. These selection pressures will dictate the physical form of life. If our theoretical alien evolves on a world were stellar radiation forces life to live mostly underground, or a world dominated by particular forms of terrain, a humanoid body plan will not by default be 'the most logical choice'. And there are plenty of cases of Darwinian evolution on Earth that had 'the logical choice' not 'win' the Darwinian struggle for survival. It is possible that an alien species that evolves in open savannah country where it is not the dominant predator might resemble us in many ways- but it doesn't require that it has four limbs and walks on the rear two.

A sapient species probably would have several traits in common with us. It would have sensory organs to view the outside world (though they might not be eyes, since eyes were sort of a freak chance in Earth evolution), manipulator organs to interact with it (though these could easily be something other than hands) and a complex vascular system to support a brain and all that entails. Other then that, there are no evolutionary pressures that dictate anything else.

What the article is claiming is that aliens might mentally/socially resemble us, and therefore are potentially a threat. This I can buy, even though it is still a wild ass guess. It would be logical to make a supposition that intelligent life would face similar problems to humans that lead to social strife, war and other issues. All these things are possible and even likely. That doesn't mean the aliens are going to be little green men.

All that aside, I still like the line, I greatly appreciate the non-humanoid aliens included (and I even like the humanoid aliens as well), and I plan to buy a bunch. So all debate above is just that, debate for fun. :)

-Will

Simon Conway-Morris is an evolutionary paleobiologist, so this is within his area of expertise, or at least an extrapolation from it -- although TBH there's no reason to assume that people like Hawking aren't also qualified to have theories about this.

Don't agree that the article doesn't say that the aliens will look like us, or that where it says so is a "throwaway" --

The process of evolution will even shape alien life in a similar way, he added.

"My view is that Darwinian evolution is really quite predictable, and when you have a biosphere and evolution takes over, then common themes emerge and the same is true for intelligence.

The article is claiming that the aliens will be like us, including in appearance. It really is a rational conclusion -- considering how uniform the laws of physics are throughout the universe, why wouldn't the laws of evolution be equally uniform? Of course it's quite possible that life has developed in different environments than ours, meaning perhaps different types of life forms than we are accustomed to, and it's even possible that some of that life has become self-aware to the extent that humans are (or more so), but the kind of travel and interaction between races that we are discussing makes it highly likely that the race we are meeting has travelled along a very similar evolutionary path to ours, and so will be very much like us.

The article is claiming that the aliens will be like us, including in appearance. It really is a rational conclusion -- considering how uniform the laws of physics are throughout the universe, why wouldn't the laws of evolution be equally uniform?

That's the rub though- there are no agreed upon 'laws of evolution' at all. There is no set of rules that say 'given this environment and these pressures these particular traits will appear'. For every example of convergent evolution (like sharks, dolphins and ichthyosaurs) one can also find an example of divergent evolution (sticking to sea critters, mosasaurs and plesiosaurs). Two different species might find extremely different 'solutions' to the same problems. Evolution doesn't happen in a lab, isn't a set of repeatable experiments. We can't 'prove' our development of intelligence was inevitable, nor can we 'prove' that velociraptors (for example) could not have developed equal intelligence were it not for the KT-event. Evolutionary science doesn't work that way.

Simon Conway-Morris is an evolutionary paleobiologist, so this is within his area of expertise

If this is the case then his opinion certainly diverges from every other evolutionary biologist and paleobiologist I've read, and I have a particular interest in this subject. He is entitled to his opinion, but I don't find it particularly well-supported or compelling. To each his own though. :)

As mentioned before, this has no real bearing on the excellent line you are producing, so I will leave the above as my last comment on the subject. I look forward to buying the line when it is released, and will be lobbying for my favorite critters to get fleshed out into wider lines. :)

-Will

An easy solution is that 'like' sticks with 'like'. The species that band together tend to be similar. The bipeds have no desire to fight near the smart jellyfish because they are icky and gross.
I imagine if humans entered an interstellar war we'd ally with lizard-like folks before we allied with those jellyfish.

LOL, this reminds me, again, of that race I tried to develop. Same race was used in Victiry By Any Means using their rules for constructing aliens. By the time I get interpreting all the mods for my species, there was no way in the known universe that anyone was going to have diplomatic relations with them. Just too friggin alien.

-Eli

Want! Well not quite yet as I have a metric butt-load of figures to paint right now….

But I foresee their purchase as soon as they become available.

Any Chance of Character figures along those lines?

There will be a model for the queen, but beyond that no immediate plans. What did you have in mind?

The centipede alien in team three…needs…no, must be expanded upon…a whole line just for them.

I agree!!! More Space Bugs!! (They are far better than the much less welcome TMP bugs that seem to be in abundance as of late . . . . )

Jeff

What about personal bodyguards for the Queen…you need those :)

-Eli

Jeff, I think you will enjoy November. Stay tuned.

Dragon gunner, MDMS usually just replaces the HMG on the deck of the Red Eagles with a micro-missile box, at least that's the only externally obvious change. I guess it's possible to concieve of further mods externally, but those are going to be more difficult to accomplish now.

"What about personal bodyguards for the Queen…you need those :)"

Seconded. Plus satrap figures in jumpjet-equipped nuclear-armed powered battle armour and their personal bodyguards. I mean if yer gonna do "Persssiannnsss innnn Spaaaaaace!" ya gotta do it right!

Count me in for a company of these Legion Etranger as soon as I can finish downsizing that Storage Unit From Hell enough to justify the procurement to the Resident War Goddess… just… too… cool, Jon!

Leland R. Erickson

Dragon gunner, MDMS usually just replaces the HMG on the deck of the Red Eagles with a micro-missile box, at least that's the only externally obvious change. I guess it's possible to concieve of further mods externally, but those are going to be more difficult to accomplish now.

I think that approach makes sense- if you have to alter the vehicle too much then it makes less sense to buy foreign weapons.

Really looking forward to seeing the Queen. I might adopt this force basically whole-sale into my own homebrew setting, which is pretty rare (usually I mix and match miniatures for my factions) but I really, really do like this force and theme.

Now I just need to convince you to cast up additional models for the centipede and the… whatever the thing to the right of it is from the third batch. Both of these really work for me and are pretty much ideal as far as non-humanoid figures go. :)

-Will

Wow, never thought I'd be able to game Alien Legion. Who makes Harkilons?

When I say Characters I mean along the lines of the Ship's crew. Less armor, armed with lighter (Meaning Sidearms etc…) weapons.

I'd pay hard credits or grogh for not-Sarigar, not-Zeerod, not-Durge, not-mescad, not-meico, not-bospor and some Harks! (Dun, Grimrod and Montroc could all be easily converted)

You mean like the DPLS crew, infojunky?

In terms of less armour, not sure about that, although their body forms already require/permit some to wear less than others. They are all different species and the equipment is what ties them together.

I could try to conjure up some characters but they are all pretty much characters already!

As for bodyguards, guess I can make two especially large aliens in some sort of ceremonial special armour to serve in that function.

I agree some sort of 'palace guard' would be neat- fancier armor/equipment to impress/intimidate foreign dignitaries!

-Will

Beautiful !!
My favs are Centipede and Centauro-insect.

A fun way to do the palace guards would be to make them both of the same species, indicating that perhaps there is one species under the Queen's rule that she trusts beyond all others.

I'm thinking of some of the earthly analogs of this where a particular culture or nation has distinguished itself so much that it gets elevated to a position of special status among the military.

-Eli

palace guards= Vulk with ornate cermonial armor plates covering body and limbs and with a dual mount mini laser attached to the head(reminded of the terror beast dinosaur thing from XCOM enemy unknown)

The Empress turned in her chair, stroking the scales of her Bentalian Hypercat. Her eyes were cold with disappointment as she beset her gaze upon her chamber full of advisors.

A long awkawrd pause fell over the room before her imperious voice broke the silence, "Really? What is it going to take to get some zangin Vulk with some zangin lasers on their heads!?"

Sorry, not a bad idea, just where my mind went.

-Eli

Gentlemen, really…:>

Royal Centipede Guard !!

I'm thinking of some of the earthly analogs of this where a particular culture or nation has distinguished itself so much that it gets elevated to a position of special status among the military.

Gurkhas in spaaaaaace

Of course you realize, once Jon releases his Empress and her royal guards, we'll all be screaming for a fully functioning field force of them

-Eli

"As for bodyguards, guess I can make two especially large aliens in some sort of ceremonial special armour to serve in that function."

Jon, do you remember the big, furry space pirate alien from Lost in Space (TV)? Just a big, black fur-covered hulking monstrosity with two small horns coming out of the sides of his head, growled like a grizzly bear (ie., all menace), and his humanoid pirate captain said, "'E eats laser beams for breakfast, ar!"

Of course, you could just use an exceptionally large and mean Garn for one guard, and something really, really nasty and big for the other. Their "sidearms" BTW could be full-sized pulse rifles or such adapted for an oversized one-handed grip, and they pack a matched pair like any exceptionally mean and nasty professional (giant alien) gunslinger should…

Just sayin'…

Leland R. Erickson

P.S. Of course, you could run one of the guards the other direction, make him (or her!) a tad smaller than the average human, but just plain *mean* and *nasty,* quick as lightning on the draw and a dead shot with his/her/it's weapon of choice ala Alois Hammer's pal Joachim Stubben…

"palace guards= Vulk with ornate cermonial armor plates covering body and limbs and with a dual mount mini laser attached to the head(reminded of the terror beast dinosaur thing from XCOM enemy unknown)"

"Sharks… with laser beams!"

Sorry… couldn't help myself….

Leland R. Erickson

"Gurkhas in spaaaaaace"

Precisely. be a natural fit for the Jasmine Throne IMHO…

Leland R. Erickson

All I can say is – When ?

Soon!

Well, guys, I was reluctant to have two horrible aliens standing alongside a human neo-Sassanid queen, but I think I've found the right creature to do the setting justice. More later….

Preparing for Zardoz bombardment…

Oh, Dear Gawd… a pair of heavily armed Garn dressed as Zardoz for guards to the queen?!! Emu!! What have you done?!!

Leland R. Erickson

You mean like the DPLS crew, infojunky?

Yes. exactly. Port scum, mercenaries on the town.

Don't take my request as a negative I love the figures. Just stating what would make me happy…

Actually I think you'll be happy infojunky as I have a set of four alien bounty hunters coming out who will supplement the Jacka Walsh and Duke set. They are four different aliens who are Jaka's not-always-friendly competition!

That's awesome to here Jon.

Characterful aliens are always welcome. Bounty hunter types can work well for everything from their intended purpose to space criminals, mercenaries, alien feedom fighters, space crew security, bodyguards, interstellar bank roobers – the list goes on!

-Eli

Um, am I the only one here who just clued in that the Jasmine Throne troops are carrying *anti-matter* weaponry…?

Um, that's just wrong… I like it.

Leland R. Erickson

It says anti-matter weaponry right in the miniature captions. ;)

-Will

Wow, you know how hard you make it to resist switching from 6mm ? Oi !!!!

Antimatter propellant, by the way. By the 26th century such tech is not particularly advanced, so that even a middling power like the Neo-Sassanid Freehold (which styles itself the "Kingdom of the Jasmine Throne") can employ AM rifles in large numbers.

Um, if anti-matter propellants are in common use, how about anti-matter *warheads?*

Leland R. Erickson

Nope. Of course, the owner of the models get to choose whatever background he likes, that's the fun of sci-fi.

Nope. Of course, the owner of the models get to choose whatever background he likes, that's the fun of sci-fi.

I also appreciate the fact that most Khurusan weapons are 'generic' enough that they can be just about anything and still look the part.

-Will

Jon,

First of all I wanted to say again how much I'm enjoying the preview pics of this project. Loving the aliens and waiting for their release. Like the Exterminators, they are a must have for me.

I did happen on one thought that I haven't seen addressed in the thread. I was wondering if any higher command level minis were in the plans for the JTFB? Are they commanded by other aliens or do they have their higher command provided from within the core military?

-Eli

Here is a second thought. Would anybody else like to see civilianised version of these aliens-samre basic body forms just without weapons? How else can me create a starport full of alien scum and villany?

In a perfect world with unlimited resources, it'd be awesome and I'd jump at the chance to populate a starport with such alien. However, I know that civilian figs are always kind of an iffy prospect for a lot of minis companies and as such, I'd understand if they didn't get made.

-Eli

"Nope. Of course, the owner of the models get to choose whatever background he likes, that's the fun of sci-fi."

You know me well enough by now, Jon; I'm Old School, so it's gravitic weaponry, conversion beams, tactical nuke rounds for RAM and Y-rack alike, masers, and other man-portable insane nastiness galore.

BTW, I too read the Alien Legion comic back in the Permian Epoch, so the whole vibe of your JTFB really hit my sci-fi funny bone, with the added bonus that as a military historian and connoisseur of all things French and military, the whole Legion Etranger in Spaaace vibe also came raging to the surface with those initial photos…

I wonder which of these I could give a Tricolor banner to with the least conversion fuss… plus pass out a few kepi blanc while I'm at it…

Leland R. Erickson

"Vive la France! Vive le Guerre! Vive la Legion Etanger!"

"How else can me create a starport full of alien scum and villany?"

Sir, I must insist you cease speaking of my family in such needlessly harsh a manner in a public venue such as this! Granted my extended family is eccentric, but "scum and villainy?"

I mean, REALLY!

Leland R. Erickson

Jon; I'm Old School, so it's gravitic weaponry, conversion beams, tactical nuke rounds for RAM and Y-rack alike, masers, and other man-portable insane nastiness galore

So as soon as someone discharges his weapon, the planet's atmosphere is set on fire and all life is destroyed. Seems a rather extreme way to wargame. Set up, turn one, pack it up, go home.