"Polish Cavalry at Klissow?" Topic
6 Posts
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Musketier | 30 Sep 2011 11:02 a.m. PST |
Another fishing expedition, after getting so much help on the Russians at Fraustadt. The Saxon army at Klissow 1702 included a sizeable wing of Polish cavalry. Would these men really have been equipped as 17thC Pancerni? The link kindly provided by 9th Maine has a plate of Arkabuzeri and dragoons which look much more westernized: link ( Still hoping to build the complete army out of Wargames Factory plastics
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karamustafapasha | 30 Sep 2011 1:10 p.m. PST |
Yes the bulk of the Polish & Lithuanian cavalry in the GNW are 17th century types – or at least what are normally considered from then. The army at Klissow had 1200 winged hussar, 4200 pancerni, 700 light cavalry, 500 noble levy cavalry and 500 infantry. They also used Arkabuzier (Western style horse) and Dragoons (in fur hats) which were like western style troops but everything else is traditional Polish style. They appear in armies of the period but usually Polish types are a lot more numerous. There is a short article here about it – link |
abdul666lw | 30 Sep 2011 1:47 p.m. PST |
Were not the 'winged hussars' already wearing metallic wings on their helmets rather than feathered ones in the back, by then?
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Swampking | 01 Oct 2011 2:55 a.m. PST |
abdul, No. From my research on the Polish cavalry in the GNW and from various Polish sources, the Poles were dressed exactly as they were during the 1660s – which means real feathers, not metallic ones. The Knoetel print you've posted is from a time when the Saxons took over the dress of the Polish army and besides, this is parade dress, not field dress. The best source for Klissow is Wimmer's account in his book on the GNW – can't remember the title at present but I've got it. I think there's also an account of the battle in 'Um die Polnische Krone' but can't be sure. There are several great books on Polish cavalry – Gorski and others come to mind. I'll have to look to see what they say about the uniforms from the GNW if anyone's interested. |
abdul666lw | 01 Oct 2011 6:32 a.m. PST |
This museum piece is labeled 'late 17th C. – 1730':
from link(interesting pieces there, btw; the experimental Russian multi-barreled pieces -light guns and light howitzers / greande throwers- are intriguing). I remember seeing a few other exemples with similar caption. Anyway Maurice de Saxe was remembering such winged helmets when he devised the helmet of his 'daydreamed Legion'
Intriguing possibilities of later developments if one is playing a long term 'What-if?' Poland campaign link , as 'Defiant Principality' what-if-catalonia.blogspot.com does for Catalonia. |
Musketier on the March | 03 Oct 2011 5:48 a.m. PST |
Thank you Gentlemen! As ever TMP is a fountain of knowledge. The Wyre Forest link is particularly informative. The "Prunk-Kürassiere" of 1730 (which I'd seen before) sport an intriguing mix of western and Polish styles, but as Swampking said, we can probably discount them for being Saxon "fantasy", and purely parade dress. So it looks as though I'll have to either exercise a lot of wargamer's license, or include at least some metal Husaria and Pancerni with my plastic army
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