"House rules for battlesystem?" Topic
9 Posts
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Mooseworks8 | 14 Sep 2011 11:01 a.m. PST |
Attempted a D&D 4th Edition conversion of any and everything. |
Malaki the Wonderer | 14 Sep 2011 11:39 a.m. PST |
I changed the basing standards Human/Humanoid all go on a 25mm square trolls/ogres/giants go on a 50mm square Cav go on a 25 x50 rectangle Also changed the way a few weapons work Original Spear: AD6*6, Range 1"/2"/3" 1pt Halberds: AD8 Second Rank can attack 2pts Modified Throwing Spear: AD(same as model)*6, Range 1"/2"/3" 1pt Spear: AD(same as model,no increase) Second Rank can attack 2pts Halberd: AD increases by 1(ex. model with AD8 equipped with a halberd goes to AD10)Front rank only 2pts Above has worked well for me these last couple of years |
pahoota | 16 Sep 2011 3:35 p.m. PST |
I just got the 2nd edition rules in the mail
looks really good. I'm going to attempt do use the rules with 10mm figures. |
Sgt Slag | 17 Sep 2011 5:01 p.m. PST |
Malaki, I, too, put all my humanoid figures on 25mm bases, if the models fit. I discovered that the Goblins, and other smaller humanoids, are at a disadvantage with a 25mm, versus a 20mm, base: they fit fewer figures against the enemy's front line, with 25mm bases. It took me a while to realize this. I wish I could fit my Goblin models onto a 20mm base, as it would improve their attack ability somewhat, being able to bring more attacks against their enemies. Most of my models will not fit onto a 20mm base, though. Oh, well. Maybe some day
Cheers! |
Scot Gore | 03 Oct 2011 9:23 a.m. PST |
This is a Copy and Paste from posts I made in 2009 on the Yahoo Group for Battlesystem that speaks directly to your post. House Rule 10:1 vs 1:1 figures. The Battlesystem games I played were mostly in at public game store with a standing Battlesystem game that occurred every Saturday. It attracted both regulars and one timers. These house rules were drawn up in that context. To be able to be presented to the one timers as House Rules in place for the Saturday's games. One of the things the regulars struggled with in the rules was the use of 1:1 hero troops versus 10:1 massed units (and vice versa). We developed a series of House Rules to bring some of the behavior of 1:1 troops more in line with what the regulars thought was most appropriate. Bear in mind, just like the previous set of rules, one of our guiding principles was to play a fantasy system that put more emphasis on the handling of the units of large scale armies and not a single Hero wading in and kicking butt. If you enjoy more Hero heavy action, then these rules are probably not for you. They are House Rules, incorportated or not by the consensus of players facing each other across the table. _____________________________________ Figures that attack with a single attack dice have the number of hits they score adjusted before armor checks by the appropriate multiplier, round all fractions up. For example, a single giant figure throwing an AD 12 boulder that rolls a 12 would have the number of hits adjusted to 2 at medium and long ranges. If the giant rolls a 10 it would inflict 2 hits at medium range and 1 hit at long range. A single charging infantry figure that rolls a 8 in melee would score 3 hits. Figures representing individuals (1:1) that are attached to a unit at the beginning of a scenario move and fight as another figure in the unit. The figures frontage counts as part of the units frontage. To move the commander within the ranks the owning player must pay for the appropriate movement costs. The commander does not get to turn for free to meet attacks, the figure must remain in formation with the unit to which it is attached. Individual heroes that are not attached to a unit may also command units within their CD. An unattached hero may command one unit per step. The owning player must state which unit their hero will shift their CD onto at the beginning of each step. Individual heroes may override the unit commanders influence if the owning player(s) so desire. When units rout, attached commanders must accompany the unit, unattached heroes are not allowed to accompany the routing unit. Unattached heroes that are in base to base contact with enemy figures may not command any troops. Attached commanders may always command the unit they are attached to as long as it remains in the commanders CD.
If a unit is attacked from the flank or rear by an individual hero then the AR is unaffected when defending against other enemy units. The attacks from the individual figure will still suffer the AR penalty. Individual figures of HUGE size or larger can be targeted by all eligible missile equipped figures in range. Huge size and up creatures may be engaged in melee by any figure in base to base contact and possible additional figures if the troop is in regular formation. Both 10:1 troops and 1:1 heroes may freely break contact with each other and engage in normal movement. Individuals of HUGE size or larger block both friendly and enemy units movement. Smaller heroes may move freely through their own 10:1 units but may not move through enemy 10:1 units. 10:1 units may move through enemy heroes at no penalty. If a hero is located in the middle of an enemy 10:1 units formation at the end of their move, the hero is surrounded and may not move unless an opening clears or the enemy units moves. The surrounded hero and unit may engage in melee and both will be considered attacked on rear. ____________________________________________ Long time miniature players will likely recognize the above as reactions to tactics often referred to as "Cheese". Some the behaviors that led to the above rules included such actions as: 1) A single line of archers with a 1:1 hero commander attached gets slammed in the flank by charging cavalry. The controling player for the archers moves the 1:1 figure to the contacted flank and faces the charge, aka skirmish move and facing changes as described on page 59-60. The archer player then demands that only a single charging cavalry figure can attack and that it is not a flank on the unit since the hero turned to face. 2) Same circumstance as above, only the controlling player states that the 1:1 hero will detach from the unit and the archer line marches away from the charge since it's no longer engaged, only the hero is fighting the charging cavalry. 3) Same circumstances as #1, but since the cavalry is only touching a 1:1 figure the entire unit can disengage from combat with it's attached commander. 4) A fierce mellee erupts between two units. One or both of the players run an unattached 1:1 figure around to the back of the opposing unit. Technically since the unit is being from the rear it's AR is adjusted by +4 for all attacks. Before instituting the house rule we would end up with all AR 10 fights since it's pretty easy to get a skirmishing unattached hero around the back. The house rule is operating from the premise that 1 guy dosn't disturb 200 very much even if he's really good. 5) A big nasty dragon walks right up to the front of a unit of 30 crossbows, clearly readying to blow. The dragon is a 1:1 figure, only a single figure of the 30 is technically allowed to target the dragon (page 60). We adopted the above house rule with the thought that quite likely all 300 guys would see it as a danger and shoot. 6) In order to prevent a frontal charge a single human hero is placed an inch or two in front of a friendly formation. Technically if a charge came forward it would contact the hero and stop. We added the above to allow the hero to be swept over and ignored. One guy does not prevent 300 from going to contact with an opposing 300. Feedback and thoughts welcome Scot |
Scot Gore | 03 Oct 2011 9:28 a.m. PST |
Misc House Rules Here's more Copy and Past from 2009 Yahoo regarding House Rules Skirmisher withdrawal is determined by using the base movement rate only. All movement reductions are cumulative. Only elevated terrain and artificial stonework may be transformed from rock to mud. One spell may be precast prior to the start of battle. This spell must be cast by one of the armies spellusers and counts as one of the spells taken for the battle. Only fifty percent of an armies total figures may be missile equipped. Individual 1:1 flying figures that are reduced below half hits (round down) freefall to the ground. Flying figures representing 10:1 troops may remain flying until the figure is eliminated. Light woods are 3 inches high. Dense woods are 4 inches high. Direct fire war machines must, such as ballista and cannons, must have a valid line of sight (LOS) to fire on enemy units. Indirect fire war machines such as catapults and trebuchet, may fire on any unit which does not have the LOS blocked by a terrain feature. War machines are not associated with particular units. To crew a war machine a unit must have the number of crew required in base to base contact with the engine. If the units retreats, routs or performs any maneuver that the machine is incapable of, then the unit has abandoned the machine and it remains in place on the battlefield. Any unit in a army which contains war machines may crew. The crew must have average intelligence and hands. Only painted figures may be used. All figures representing 10:1 troops must be on the appropriate bases. Record sheets must be prepared for all individual figures and troop units. The record sheets must list all abilities, powers, and limitations of the figures. Spell lists should be included for all spellusing figures. ______________________________ |
Scot Gore | 03 Oct 2011 9:33 a.m. PST |
More from the 2009 discussion on House Rules When we started playing Battlesystem it was to some degree motivated by trying to avoid what many felt was present in Warhammer Fantasy Battle. The overwhelming influence of single individual heros in the outcome of the game. We were more interested in playing large unit actions and did not want to play a skirmish game where victory and defeat is determined by how well you play your heros and not how well you play your units of bows, cavalry, pikes, and peasants. We instituted the following House Rules to limit the number of high priced heros available to a army. __________________________________ Only one dragon per side. Figures costing more than 120 points but less than or equal to 200 points may only be used if at least 1000 points is spent on figures costing less than 120 points each. Figures costing more than 200 points but less than or equal to 250 points may only be used if at least 1500 points is spent on figures costing less than 120 points each. Figures costing more than 250 points but less than or equal to 275 points may only be used if at least 2000 points is spent on figures costing less than 120 points each. Figures costing more than 275 points but less than or equal to 300 points may only be used if at least 2500 points is spent on figures costing less than 120 points each. Figures costing more than 300 points may only be used if at least 3000 points is spent on figures costing less than 120 points each. Troops or individual points used to meet the above requirements to buy one figure may not be included in the points required to buy any other subsequent figure. Only one individual (non-commander) figure for every two 10:1 troop units is allowed per army. ___________________________________ As an example if you wanted to field a Grand Wizard from the core rule book (225 points), then you needed to field at least 1500 points of less grand soldiers first. In others words, you needed something like 18 Ultra Heavy Cav, 25 Veteran Pike, and 26 longbowman before you could field a Grand Wizard. Most games we played were in the 2000 point range, so generally you had one really good expensive figure or 2 mid range heros on the field per player. These imposed limitations by the "house" generally meant that players had to win the battles with there armies versus their wizards (et al). Which was an important principle for our group. Large unit actions is not everyone's cup of tea, but it added allot to the games for us. Scot |
Achtung Minen | 23 Feb 2022 7:04 p.m. PST |
Sorry for the thread necro, but I just had to respond to this… Long time miniature players will likely recognize the above as reactions to tactics often referred to as "Cheese". Some the behaviors that led to the above rules included such actions as:1) A single line of archers with a 1:1 hero commander attached gets slammed in the flank by charging cavalry. The controling player for the archers moves the 1:1 figure to the contacted flank and faces the charge, aka skirmish move and facing changes as described on page 59-60. The archer player then demands that only a single charging cavalry figure can attack and that it is not a flank on the unit since the hero turned to face. That's not allowed. It is true that heroes can move freely, but the book is quite clear that they do not take the place of 10:1 figures. Once the enemy contacts the flank of the archers, they are no longer allowed to move. If the hero moves up independently of the unit to attack the flanking cavalry, that does not at all mean that he gets to move the line of archers out of harms way. The cavalry should get at least 3 or 4 models attacking the archers (assuming the cavalry is in regular formation). Thereafter, the cavalry can wraparound to cause more damage in subsequent rounds. 2) Same circumstance as above, only the controlling player states that the 1:1 hero will detach from the unit and the archer line marches away from the charge since it's no longer engaged, only the hero is fighting the charging cavalry. Again, that is completely illegal according to the rules. The hero cannot move to take the place of a normal archer figure, the archers cannot detach themselves and march away. A strict reading of the rules on page 60 would even imply that a hero MUST be placed between two normal figures in the unit while in combat, so technically a hero is not even allowed to be on the flank when melee happens. 3) Same circumstances as #1, but since the cavalry is only touching a 1:1 figure the entire unit can disengage from combat with it's attached commander. Again, not legal. Moreover, I would interpret the rules on page 60 to mean that EVEN IF the hero was originally on the flank of the archer line and was WITHIN the unit, the attacker should still be able to attack BOTH the hero AND the archer regiment, even if he is only touching the hero's base. The reason for this is that individual heroes do not actually take up any space whatsoever in the frontage of the unit. Individual models within a unit are basically coterminous with one of the 10:1 figures in the unit for the purpose of establishing contact. 4) A fierce mellee erupts between two units. One or both of the players run an unattached 1:1 figure around to the back of the opposing unit. Technically since the unit is being from the rear it's AR is adjusted by +4 for all attacks. See page 62. The AR penalty would only apply to attacks from the hero. 5) A big nasty dragon walks right up to the front of a unit of 30 crossbows, clearly readying to blow. The dragon is a 1:1 figure, only a single figure of the 30 is technically allowed to target the dragon (page 60). We adopted the above house rule with the thought that quite likely all 300 guys would see it as a danger and shoot. The likely reason for this rule is so that regiments of archers cannot simply snipe characters from the field with impunity. This applies both to man-sized heroes and giant, lone monsters… in Battlesystem 2e, both of these types of individuals tend to be the leaders of armies and thus play a very important function for command and control. I would honestly reconsider this special rule. Otherwise, a unit of arquebusiers would be almost guaranteed to paste even the toughest army general and turn a center-piece monster like a Dragon into swiss cheese in no time. 6) In order to prevent a frontal charge a single human hero is placed an inch or two in front of a friendly formation. Technically if a charge came forward it would contact the hero and stop. We added the above to allow the hero to be swept over and ignored. One guy does not prevent 300 from going to contact with an opposing 300. That's not true: a single hero cannot stop a charging unit, only a single charging figure. See the top of page 56. "Once a figure in a moving unit (in any formation) comes into contact with a skirmisher, that figure must cease moving. As with any unit, other figures can keep moving until they, too, come into contact with skirmishers or reach the limit of their movement allowance." A single hero is treated as a skirmisher, so he cannot physically hold up a charge. He could delay perhaps one file of the charging unit, but this wouldn't even break the unit's ranks (see page 21: models in a rank do not actually need to be side by side in cases such as these). The only way for single individuals to stop a charge is to have at least one individual figure for every model in the charging unit's front rank (so if the attacker has a frontage of 6, you would need 6 heroes in a loose picket line to fully stop the charge). Then, every one of the heroes would need to survive the "bonus round" of combat that is fought against skirmishers who are blocking a charge. If any hero died, the charging model would continue his charge and fight again that round if he reaches the enemy unit that is his real target. |
Sgt Slag | 28 Feb 2022 11:40 a.m. PST |
2e BS rules have some anomalies, for certain. I recently played a game with an ancient Blue Wyrm as the army commander for one side. I implemented a special weather condition, thick fog, visibility reduced to 3" for everyone on the table, to offset this issue. I later explained that the Dwarven deity put the fog there, to allow his stumpies to have a fighting chance against the longer legged, faster moving enemies. It made for an interesting change in the game, as only figures with 6" of movement, or less, could charge! The Blue Wyrm did, in fact, fly over the enemy troops attempting to use her fear aura to shake, or break, enemy Units -- it didn't work well, but they tried. I have had players grumble that charging cavalry cannot stop on a dime, when they hit the first enemy unit… My mantra has always been, and it will continue to always be, "It's a game -- not a simulation." We discussed the single figure of archers/X-bowmen attacking the Dragon as she flew over. I agreed, it was ridiculous for a Unit of 50 (500 men!) X-bowmen to stand there with only 1 figure (10 men!) shooting at a Dragon which is over 200 feet long, flying over them (check the sizes for 2e Dragons, in the Monstrous Manual -- they increased the physical sizes of Giants and Dragons to the point of being ridiculous, IMO)! I know, this contradicts what I said about, "It's a game, not a simulation," but I just can't justify 10 men, out of 500, shooting at such an incredibly large target flying overhead. It's a tangled web of gamie-ness. What can I say. The Blue Wyrm did have an AR of 2, so only Armor Check rolls of 1, penetrated her armor. She had 10 Hits, so it would have taken them a while to kill her. Secondly, X-bowmen more than 3" away from her could not see her (fog, visibility to 3" only), so they could not shoot at her. It worked, in a twisted, convoluted way, in that particular game. Next game, who knows. Cheers! |
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