"castrophic varnish failure, help!" Topic

aaarg, I have the dreaded white varnish catastrophe… (T-T)

Any recovery possible??? I suspect it is due to humidity.

help much appreciated…
THANKS

Another coat of varnish sometimes does the trick.

Trying to brush on gloss varnish. It gives "better" result, still some white appearing. Still not completely there

Damage limited to guns, re-paintable.

I'd strip and repaint

Helmet, as much as I wish I could, I'm afraid I cannot help you. All I can say is 'nooooooooooooooooooooooo' on your behalf. This sucks.

ok, putting another layer of varnish has failed… :-(

repainting… I suppose I need to rejoice that damage is limited to guns :-\

Have you got a spray on gloss varnish? I found that spraying on gloss worked, and then re-varnishing with Matt when the weather was better.

brushed gloss varnish. It was better at first, then when it dried the white layer appeared again underneath (although there was some slight improvement on certain parts).

So annoying

Since having experienced the "matt varnish desaster" myself when I sprayed a bunch of Zombies with The Army Painter's anti-shine varnish, nowadays I exclusively use brush-on matt varnish. Much more control, and better coverage.

That being said, I managed so save the miniatures in question by applying another layer of gloss and matt varnish (brush on), The results are not perfect, but better than having to paint them all over again!

Spray on gloss varnish usually saves the day. After that, you can dullcote as usual. Humidity is the culprit.

"I'd strip and repaint"

This. I did it three times to a British rifle platoon being done for my friend for free. Being that I'm anal about my work looking good, the platoon just kept looking better and better each time. So, such a problem isn't always bad.

I can see the logic for repainting them but it would seem to me it would be alright to leave your clothes on?
Regards
Russ Dunaway

First laugh I've had all day….

Hey now! Some of us are more comfortable doing our hobbies naked. Or at least shirtless! Glue is easy to get off skin, skin grows back if the glue takes some, but that $20-$30 novelty Firefly shirt you(I) bought at a convention last summer that gets zap-a-gap on it doesn't grow back. The glue makes a little hole, which gets bigger by micrometers every time you wash it….and then, there was suddenly a hook-handed knock on the door…and…BOO! >_>

pic of the semi disaster… :-(

You can always push this:
nooooooooooooooo.com

One of the reasons why I never use varnish.

Are these metal or resin models?

What often works is : put models in oven at 75°C.for 30 minutes.
Re- spray with gloss varnish.
Put models back in oven for about 30-45 minutes.
Wait 24hrs.
Put models back in oven for 30 minutes and heat up the matt varnish can in hot water. Re- spray with matt varnish.
If you want to put models again in oven after spraying the matt varnish, but this usually not necessary.

I have had that happen before in a high humidity environment, such as in my garage. Respraying them indoors in an air conditioned setting has always made the white frosting disappear for me.

Now, don't panic. Been there, seen that, done that… and solved it.
First find yourself an appropriate thinner. If you used enamels, use white spirit. For acrylics alcohol is best (isopropyl or ethyl)
Second; moisten a swab in the thinner. Be careful: do not soak the swab, moistening is the way to go. I use paper tissue held in tweezers or a cotton tiped ear stick. The latter leaves more fibers on the model after the cure though.
Third: lightly rub the swab over the infected area. Do not rub too hard, you do not want to strip the paint. Gently is the way and it might take some different turns.
Fourth: pick off all the fibres left on the model with some tweezers, or if you used enamels you can hold the model under gently running water.
So that's my 5 cents, it worked for some models I screwed up. Succes… and let us know if it worked.

Baby wipes could be worth a try i find them quite useful for paint stripping, not had this situation though so not entirely sure it would work in this case

thanks gents for the advice. I will try that if it ever happen again. :-(

From the Humbrol website:

What do I do if my Matt/Satin Varnish has dried with misting in places?

The white misting is deposits of the matting agent, usually caused by the varnish not being stirred thoroughly or regularly enough. However this can easily be rectified by applying a coat of gloss varnish which will dissolve the matting agent. A coat of Matt or Satin varnish can then be re-applied.

link

hth.

I dont have this problem since a friend put me on to Xtracolor XDFF Matt varnish.

Or..you could always say its early winter camo….?

By way of prevention- I put so much time, effort and money into the hobby (and I'm not alone!)that I felt an investment of $150 USD in a room dehumidifier from Walmart was
called for. From a painting and storage perspective, it was a great idea. Paints & varnishes be they oil or acrylics, seemingly dry, take days to fully cure and (hopefully)bond with the surface they are on, which it does poorly on a molecular level in "wet" air. Paint jobs will last decades longer done and stored in low humidity.

The white mist of death – it is about the worst thing that can happen after all the time and effort. It happened to me a few times. I am with Coopman on this – if I spray indoors I don't get a problem……just need to make sure that the management doesn't catch me !

Light brush with a thinner got me out of trouble in the past

Army Painter's anti-shine varnish

I find this brand way too prone to frosting and don't use it anymore. Dullcote has never failed me although I understand it's not universally available anymore.

DM

I had the same thing happen to my SU-100's. Two more sprays of matte varnish helped, leaving only a little white in some nooks.

Funny old thing, I was about to recommend Army Painter's Anti Shine varnish. I have never had a problem with it and found it 100% reliable over a sustained period of use. I have used Games Workshop's and Humbrol's and found them both equally reliable.

I almost always spray outside unless the weather precludes it, and I am that impatient, then in my garage, and have rarely had this frosting problem and not for a very long time.

I use Vallejo acrylics and GW washes at the moment but have used other acrylics, including GW and Humbrol in the past, and various makes of enamels. The medium makes no difference.

I allow at least 24 hours for the final wash to dry thoroughly in all the nooks and crannies, and always follow the instructions on the varnish tin to the letter, making sure it is thoroughly mixed – at least two minutes of vigorous shaking.

On the few occasions I have had any frosting it has always been when I broke my own rules. A second application, properly mixed and applied, has always resolved it.

I am fairly sure that the problem is 'operator error'.

just looking around TMP sites I've never seen, but after having to scrape frost off the car this morning kinda looks like that.

On the few occasions that this has happened to me, I always find it helpful to take the item in question into my garden and smash it as hard as possible into my yard floor.

Its best not to use spray varnish!!!

Raglan

I had the deadly white frost happpen on Warhammer plastics after using modelling matte spray varnish.

I was able to actually completely cure it by using liquid Dull Cote, by Testors, brushed on normally right over the frost.

The frost completely disappeared, and the paintjobs were saved.

Happened to me once and I did the full repaint. Now I always brush on Humbrol gloss varnish first (remember the aroma of enamel paints and thinners …) then a coat of brushed on Daler Rowney soluble matt varnish for acrylics (shaken, not stirred). Need two coats of matt to avoid a slight sheen, but I like the sheen: and the undercoat of gloss ensures a tough finish.

I use Army Painter regularly and only had one instance of frost and that was because I sprayed in high humidity just like they told me not to. I agree operator error.

Helmet,

The best thing is to watch the relative humidity. The higher the humidity the more likely you are going to get this problem.

The best advice is don't spay when the weather is sticky or too damp.

I'm having something of a varnish prediciment too. I am new to this hobby (about 2 months in), so I have had the luxury of using spray varnish(Krylon matte) in my garage since I have been at it. Now, living in Kansas City, it's starting to get cold (plus it get's downright humid in the summer here), so I want a brush on varnish I can use indoors. Most of the flags I've aquired are GMBs, so I don't want to ruin them. I bought a bottle of Model Master semi-gloss to coat my flags with before spraying the matte. My result with that has been fantastic.

Last night I bought a bottle of MM matte and tried some on a
Perry Zouave painted with GW red and white on the turban. The red began to bleed. Damn! So now I don't know what to use. I'd like to have just one product, but I need suggestions. Today I bought a bottle of Delta Ceramcoat Satin (cannot find matte at any Hobby Lobby) and a bottle of Windsor & Newton Artisian water mixable oil matte varnish. a) will one of these products not eat the ink on flags or the paint on models and still be flat enough? b) Would the Model Master varnishes have been fine if I'd used the semi-gloss as the first coat and the matte as the second?

BTW, Dullcote spray is noxious as hell. I am considering not even using that stuff unless I am outdoors.

Personally I would paint the figure with thinned polyurethane varnish using a large brush size 6+ & give it a light coat of well mixed acrylic varnish with a brush stopping every couple of figures to thoroughly mix the varnish. Brush varnishes are much less effected by humidity & you have more chance to stop them from settling out.

I have never had GW paint bleed through a varnish like that but their old inks did quite a bit which is why they where best applied with a little gloss varnish as are proper Windsor & Newton or Rowny type inks though Tamyia gloss medium also works

I would not use spray on any thing I have painted

Have you had good experiences with Model Master – Lacquer Overcoat (Lusterless (Flat))?

There was a discussion about the dreaded frosting effect recently on one of the yahoo groups. The guy had tried several of the ideas above, but eventually discovered that olive oil gave good results-I think it was just brushed on. I can't vouch for this as I don't use spray varnish (it's always too wet, too cold or too windy to spray outside in NE Scotland!)
My technique at the moment (10mm and 15mm figures) is Army Painter dip, well stirred and brushed on (gives gloss varnish effect, as well as good shadowing) then, after 24 hours, use brush coats of Humbrol Matt Cote which has been stood on a radiator for about an hour and is really well stirred to ensure any solids are properly dissolved and distributed.

If you must use spray varnish shake, shake, shake, spray, shake, shake, shake, spray etc seems to be the best way (and avoid Scottish weather).

As for the "bleeding through of GW paints, I assume these are acrylic. I think the key is to ensure that the paint is thoroughly dry and patience is the best way of achieving this-I tend to leave figures to dry for at least a week before attempting to varnish them. If I am in a hurry to get a unit finished, I have put figures on the central heating radiator all day, or even in the oven for half an hour on lowest heat possible, before attempting to varnish.

Just don't use spray Varnish, their are so many other options available now. I use Vallejo brush on Varnish's myself.

You've possibly had all the answers you need but FWIW when this happened to me (yes, Army Painter as well) I gave them a spray with Matt Acrylic Picture Sealing Varnish (from art shops for sealing pencil sketches etc.) and it worked a treat – frosting was gone instantly. Now I just use that product for my final matt finish.

Olive oil is the way to go :D

See my blog for a recent demonstration with pictures!

same thing happened to me with a batch of black orcs that got sprayed outdoors in high humidity. Let's just say they turned out not-so-black.

Never tried the liquid gloss varnish as a possible fix… may have to give it a shot.

Thanks all; just had a minor catastrophe…you saved me.

Humidity and cold seem to be the definite the main culprits.

Instead of fixing the issue, I try now to anticipate. My significant other bought a portable dryer for small laundry. When I know I have a matt varnish session, I dry the room the night before and then varnish with a spray as usual. Then of course, I cannot stay in the room and need to open the window, but that's an entirely different topic…
But ever since, I never had any frosting experience.

I have had this happen. On 6mm H&R. Very frustrating, and the reason I don't use GW's spray varnish any longer.

Testor's ModelMasters seems to work better for me.

SO the Army Painter Matt finish spray has issues it seems, great I had recently bought some online. I better go get some Testors Dullcote.

Not in my experience. Just follow the instructions. Shake well, don't spray too close or too far away and ensure you clear the nozzle after use.

Also ensure the paint you are spraying over is absolutely dry. I give acrylics 24hrs and Army Painter dip 72hrs.

I've used too many cans of the stuff to count, in cold and hot weather, inside and out and it is 100% reliable so far.

Same with all spray varnish really.

Getting ready to try my first attempt with this. I am using krylon crystal clear and army painter spray. Reading all this has got me nervous. I wonder if it not just better to use brush on.