"Why did the pike fall into disfavour" Topic

Was the pike no longer used in warfare beacause of replacement of technology,lack of hardwood sources for the pike,or some other reason.The roman legion had put paid to use in the classical world but it was in use again in ECW/TYW and in some cases the Great Northern War.I had heard they considered using it again in the ACW,but didnt,was this due to lack of resources(for muskets/training)

Technology and tactical doctrine would be my answer. The pike was made obsolete by the socket bayonet, and more muskets meant increased firepower.

Once you don't need the pike to fend off the cavalry the fact that a pike can't stop a musketeer become very important. And only having 1 infantry type to train at a time when armies are expanding rapidly is a very good thing.

They kept splintering in the tank treads.

Die he tell him his name?

Better muskets, better bayonets, every man could be both pike and shot, and cavalry was abandoning the lance for the most part.

Musket shot further.

Firepower became increasingly dominant on the battlefield. A pike is a fine weapon, but useless against people who can kill you from a distance.

Increasingly pikemen were idle on the battlefield so it's no wonder that they might drop their pike and get a musket from a fallen soldier so they could do something more than just wait for the next cavalry charge.

Tactics in Roman Warfare and the rest of the ancient world at the time resulted in the change of warfare against pike armed armies. Later they came back into use primarily against superior cavalry. Once the advancement in long bow and gun powder weapons came about the pike was pretty much gone to history.
VR
James Mattes

Also, one book I have notes arquebusiers were paid 4 ducats, pikemen 3.

Nuclear weapons were pretty much the death knell for the pike. Some might point to earlier trends, as seen above, but HOGWASH I say. The pike was just as viable from the first day as it was on August 5th 1945. The Marines should have used them on Iwo Jima. It was the Industrial-Military Conspiracy that forced armies into buying less useful but more expensive weapons such as .30 cal machine guns and 155mm howitzers. Sure, they leave quite a mark if you have time to sit around all day and tend to them. Try whipping one out during a burglary, though, and you'll see the difference. While they are trying to set up tripods and mid-axle firing pedestals there you are with a chop and a heave and a ho making short work of them and their weapons salesmen minions.

All the fun has been taken out of the pike since they weaponized Special Relativity. Oh, but just you wait. The Pike will have it's triumphant return when the Higgs-Boson is properly discovered and Theory of Evolution is weaponized into the Mega-Pike. Pike enthusiasts await that day with building anticipation!

Mothers began to warn the men that this "was a sure way to lose an eye"
Regards
Russ Dunaway

Some people say that the bass was better or the trout, but I still say the pike has it's uses…

I prefer halibut myself.

I'm not that keen on fishing, but I do it every once in a while, just for the halibut.

Pikes were certainly used during the ACW:

link

although railroads were preferred.

Pikes went in and out of fashion repeatedly, it was used by some of the earliest recorded armies,then again by the macedonians et al, then was used by swiss and others in late medieval, ECW and a few others.

I believe that Khrushchov had a bee in his bonnet about heavy tanks being obsolete, so the IS-3 ("Shchuka") fell out of favour until old baldy retired "for health reasons". The T-10 and T-10M carried on for a while, though.

All the best,

John.

Pike is disgusting and full of bones .. don't the french take claim over the first bayonet charge 1670 something ??

I'm trying to visualise someone in a 16' foot long room swinging an 18' long pike at a burglar…..

However, pikes did gain resurgence in the 19th century when they were reversed and used for pole vaulting. Pole vaulting is based on the experiences of badly trained pikemen.

Pike enthusiasts await that day with building anticipation!

Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!

@Dwight
Were the French on the giving or receiving end?

The pike was a component part of a weapon system that included shot. Each component had a role to perform on the battlefield. Shot was meant to inflict disruption on the enemy. The pike was used to provide shock meant to drive the disrupted enemy from the battlefield. The combined technology was a one-two punch. To say pike was only there to protect shot from cavalry like saying the bayonet was only used to protect the user from cavalry attacks. The firepower of shot is vastly overrated. If firepower had such shock power then the Americans should have stopped the British in their tracks during the AWI.

When the pike was replaced by the bayonet, one type of shock weapon was replaced by another. What had been disruption by shot followed by the shock of a pike attack was replaced by disruption by shot followed by the shock of a bayonet attack.

As to why the one was replaced by the other had more to do with the needs of siege warfare than of the needs of battle. Ask yourself what the dominant form of warfare at this time? Clearly it was sieges. John Churchill fought 4 major battles in the WSS. He fought many more sieges. It was Vauban (Louis XIV's siege master) who forbade the use of pikes at sieges. The reason is not hard to understand. For example, when an assault was ordered the shot went in to clear the enemy shot. They then had to be pulled back to allow the pike assault. This pullback allowed the enemy a short respite before the pike attack. This gave them a chance to prepare for the pike attack which made pike attacks bloodier than need be. With the bayonet, there was no pullback. You cleared the enemy shot then went in immediately with the bayonet. This was more efficient and saved lives. In addition, bayonets were superior to pikes in the trench fighting that accompanied many sieges.

It didn't go 'bang'. The bigger the bang the better.

Essentially the bayonet gave every musketeer a short pike to use once he'd fired.

Size doesn't matter?

Pikes take too long to load and you cant reach the other end….

Actually doesn't Bayonet come from the French town of Bayonne where the French first used a plug bayonet?

A wonderful thread this one – thank you lads. A good question with some well considered, thoughtful and interesting answers combined with a dose of the marvellous razor sharp wit that mixes for the the very best of TMP threads. It's why I keep coming back and represents the very best of us. Even my wife is giggling at this thread.

Nick

I was amazed at the quick and varied responses.

Bill………….

Capt. Pike is in a much better place now. Thank you, Mr. Spock.

In ancient times, was it something to do with the tendency to copy winners rather than losers? Once the Romans beat the Successors, maybe folks decided that this proved that Roman methods and weapons were superior to pike based armies.