"Power Armor Weapon Loads" Topic

Hey all,

The discussion over on this thread TMP link got me to thinking about what exactly makes for a good power armor weapon load.

Most power armor that has come out has really fallen into the armored space suit with a big gun category, but this seems to me to be a very limited use of the power armor concept.

It seems to me that the load out for a power armor should include a primary weapon a secondary weapon and allow for special weapons as well. and example of this, using current/next generation weaponry would be -

1 x .50 MG
1 x GPMG
2 x ATGM
16 x Mini Grenades

This would produce a single power armor that can take on just about any target at least in some limited capacity. 4-6 of these might be able to do a job similar (not exactly) to a platoon of regular infantry.

Thoughts?

-Eli

Seems reasonable to me. Something like the list or thereabouts. Depending the tech, he might also have a couple drones.

Don't see why not.
I am playing down this though as it will create for super units in my games.

Tech level would certainly apply. A higher tech level might have more ATGMs, grenades, micro-missiles, plasma guns, fletchets, etc.

It's cool to hear that folks are playing along these lines.

AB, you mean you are downplaying them for game balance?

-Eli

I am a big fan of micro-missiles.

I like it – you have a gun heavy enough to damage an enemy power armor, a gun for suppressing unarmored troops, and a way to face off against heavy armor.

This reminds me of the loadout of a Heavy Gear – some sort of autocannon, some rocket pods (equivalent to an Apache's 70mm rocket launchers) for reducing hard targets, and some "anti-personnel grenade launchers" for driving away soft targets.

I also like the idea of including drones to help mitigate the soldier's isolation from the battlefield while enclosed.

Mobile infantry would support the PA trooper with extra missile pods, ammo, coolant, etc.

AB, you mean you are downplaying them for game balance?

Kind of…

The rules I use (FUBAR) are very basic anyway and within the rules there is not much choice of weapons and/or special powers.
Power Armour is covered in the rules, and as they currently are, they are already very powerful indeed.
I have them armed with the same weapons as my regular guys but with a better save and better melee factor due to the armour, as per the rules.

If I were to increase their firepower above what normal troops carry then they would unbalance games and be akin to terminators in a world of WWII soldiers.

I use the rules as they are printed which does not really factor in having bigger and better weapons than Joe normal.
As its stands they are very powerful and any more oomph! would make the games about the power armour squad and ignoring the other troops.

Currently the balance is right.
Tanks will be the big hitters in my games.

I can see games though where PA troops are super troops and why not?
It is science fiction after all!

Also maybe it depends what you mean by powered armour.
In my games it is just that, self contained powered armour and not a weapon platform of any sort.

Eli,

I concur with your weapons load assessment. I also agree that the nature of the weaponry and the mix thereof will vary based upon technological level, however the fundamental mission profile for the weapon system mix will remain much the same whatever the tech:

1) Heavy rapid fire anti-personnel weapon system.

2) Light anti-armour weapon system.

3) Light HE-based indirect fire weapon system.

4) Multiple rapid-fire light anti-personnel weapon system as back-up for close quarters encounters.

The original weapon load described by RAH in his novel had the suit itself as a viable hand-to-hand weapon system with the added bonus of the high degree of protection the suit armour offered the occupant. Heinlein's description of a typical "Marauder" suit weapon fit included:

1) "Hand Flamer." This apparently was some sort of energy weapon system IMHO, as it could be adjusted to wide "spray" to cook multiple personnel targets in close quarters, or a "knife beam" mode to cut a hole in a concrete wall.

2) Lots of grenades/bombs.

3) Micro-nuke missile launcher.

4) Y-rack bomb thrower/mortar.

The classic sci-fi miniature wargame Starguard picked up on Heinlein's descriptions, and added in the "laser finger" idea from Haldemann's FOREVER WAR:

1) Plasma Gun. 5-shot weapon system that also generated a magnetic force screen for personal use when no weapons are being fired.

2) Laser pistol built into the left gauntlet of the suit (light autofire anti-personnel weapon).

3) Y-rack bomb thrower. 6-shot guided fire weapon system.

Specialist weapons systems such as heavier missile launchers would replace the Y-rack and plasma gun in powered armour units of the Starguard, while their loaders would still retain the standard weapon fit in addition to carry 5-round ammo racks to support the heavier weapon.

Heinelin himself mentioned a "heavy weapons section" in SST the novel as well, implying such heavier ordinance for his Mobile Infantry.

Mobility is the big wild card here IMHO; do you troopers have jump jets/grav pack/flying belts etc. to get around more rapidly, or do they just hoof it like the rest of the PBI?

The mobility factor will also change the mission profile IMHO, and wonderfully so from a tactical point of view. The Starguard powered armour have jet packs as standard, and that added mobility can be very handy indeed on the game table…

Leland R. Erickson

I'm a big fan of the loaded to the gills PAs. Most other stuff seems to fall into the GW Tac Marine vein, which is alright in of itself, but not that exciting.

In Rifts, even the light PAs had at least a couple micro-missiles somewhere.

"I also like the idea of including drones to help mitigate the soldier's isolation from the battlefield while enclosed."

If your tech premise is IMHO even remotely highly techie, then drones are pretty much mandatory, if only for scout suits and officers.

Raiders would definitely use drones as well, both weapon drones to bring in heavier fire support and small easily concealed drones for recce on the ground and to act as "point men" for the individual troopers especially in a built-up area.

Leland R. Erickson

" Most other stuff seems to fall into the GW Tac Marine vein, which is alright in of itself, but not that exciting."

Based upon the assorted fluff for the GW Space Womble armour suit, it's not powered armour per se, but PAPA gear, namely *Power*Assisted*Personal*Armour, which is a suit that has just enough power to cancel out the weight of the armour, but offers no additional benefits such as enhanced strength for hand-to-hand combat, etc.

Leland R. Erickson

Heinelin himself mentioned a "heavy weapons section" in SST the novel as well, implying such heavier ordinance for his Mobile Infantry.

How do you get heavier than a NUKE!?

Mobility doesn't have to suffer. We have some pretty agile walking machines right now and we're just getting started. Piston-powered jump-boosters are also options instead of jets. But once again, tech level comes to play.

Drones figure into my thoughts as well. Either attached to the armor itself and deployed man by man or more likely assigned to the unit. with proper drone assistance and a good number of indirect missiles and grenades, a squad of PA could deal out a lot of firepower andn ot even pop their head up.

AB,

I do not so much see PA as a replacement for infantry or for tanks. I see PA being the troops we could really use right now. Something that can give deal out firepower like a larger formation without having to put so many men in danger. They can move through streets in ways that vehicles might not be able to.

You will still need infantry to bring up the rear.

That is not to say an all power armor forces isn't a cool idea!

-Eli

To follow up on what BlackWidowPilot is saying;

Maybe the main thrust of such a force is the PA itself, 10-12 armored "giants" with all other support and recon functions carried out by drones.

I think at that level of tech you could even suggest that all the drone C&C is done by one guy, inside a suit of PA. Maybe a command suit with an additional comm loadout.

I like your pic 28mmMan
Bulky but nice and sexy in one package :)

I grade my PA as light and heavy.
Light carry only weapons in manipulative hands.
Heavy in addition can mount weapons on chassis.

So light PA would have heavy gun, and would be powered heavy infantry.
While heavy onces would poses rapid fire weapon mounted into forearms, Some AT weapon (disposable rockets or something like that) and main gun in hand or on shoulder mount.

I like that pic too. It's a little Maschinen Kriegerish; if any 15mm manufacturer made one like that, I'd be all over it.

I think the intent on that pic was to update the Maschinen Krieger concept.

-Eli

"I like your pic 28mmMan
Bulky but nice and sexy in one package :)

I grade my PA as light and heavy.
Light carry only weapons in manipulative hands.
Heavy in addition can mount weapons on chassis.

So light PA would have heavy gun, and would be powered heavy infantry.
While heavy onces would poses rapid fire weapon mounted into forearms, Some AT weapon (disposable rockets or something like that) and main gun in hand or on shoulder mount"

"I like that pic too. It's a little Maschinen Kriegerish; if any 15mm manufacturer made one like that, I'd be all over it"

"I think the intent on that pic was to update the Maschinen Krieger concept"

I do not like a hand held gun, too fiddly…but weapons that fit into common arm/shoulder/etc. sockets work for me…drop the used elements and swap for another.

15mm or 28mm would be welcome IMO!

Exactly what I was thinking MAK + modern touches

One of the big problems I am having with the heavy gun on the PA's that I am sketching is barrel length. Unless I substantially shorten the barrel there is a risk of scraping the barrel on the ground when the arm moves too much.

-Eli

Lots of good suggestions. I might swap out the GPMG for a fully automatic shotgun with a huge ammunition feed. Before the mission you decide if you want OO buck or titanium sabot slugs.

I really like the design posted by 28mm man and would love to see it in 15mm.

Why not have two ammo feeds on the shotgun? I still think that a GPMG might work better as it would allow for some accuracy. Though you could always fin stabilize your sabot slugs .

I have also been checking and depending on the range and tech, up to 6 x ATGM seem manageable in one of the shoulder boxes, but that really might be overkill.

-Eli

The only reason I suggested a shotgun is because the armor is equipped with a .50 CAL HMG. I hadn't thought of selective ammunition feeds for the shotgun. I was thinking of something totally devestating at close ranges.

"Mobility is the big wild card here"-BlackWidow

That is the wild card! In my games at most I will allow minor jumps over limited obstacles or no jumping at all. I can't see using Heinlen style multi kilometer jumps without some serious game balance issues.

"How do you get heavier than a NUKE!? "

That's easy! LOST of NUKES!! BWAAAHAHAHAAHAAAA!!!

"Mobility doesn't have to suffer. We have some pretty agile walking machines right now and we're just getting started. Piston-powered jump-boosters are also options instead of jets. But once again, tech level comes to play."

Yup. Heinlein had his Mobile Infantry using both technologies, jump jets for extended jumps and the power of the suit's pseudomusculature to perform the more routine leaps over a skyscraper in a songle bound.

"Drones figure into my thoughts as well. Either attached to the armor itself and deployed man by man or more likely assigned to the unit. with proper drone assistance and a good number of indirect missiles and grenades, a squad of PA could deal out a lot of firepower andn ot even pop their head up."

Bingo.

"I do not so much see PA as a replacement for infantry or for tanks. I see PA being the troops we could really use right now. Something that can give deal out firepower like a larger formation without having to put so many men in danger. They can move through streets in ways that vehicles might not be able to."

Absolutely 110% on target, oh Diabolical Flightless Bird of the 21st Century.

"You will still need infantry to bring up the rear."

And hold the ground you take against the scream hordes of scum-sucking homicidal aliens who will be organizing a counter attack before the powered armour jump jet nozzles have even had tome to cool down….

"That is not to say an all power armor forces isn't a cool idea!"

Such is not merely a meat n' potatoes element of military sci-fi IMHO, but it is *iconic* thanks to Heinlein and the others that followed who took up this idea and ran with it.

Leland R. Erickson

"Before the mission you decide if you want OO buck or titanium sabot slugs."

Alternating belt feed of AP and buck, just as aircraft HMGs used alternating ball and tracer or ball and AP.

Leland R. Erickson

"That is the wild card! In my games at most I will allow minor jumps over limited obstacles or no jumping at all. I can't see using Heinlen style multi kilometer jumps without some serious game balance issues."

Well, waaay back in the Permian Epoch of miniature wargaming when the only sci-fi miniature wargame in existence was Starguard, the solution was written into the rules: a short hop under a certain distance was nape-of-the-earth and wasn't so serious (interfered more with the flying trooper's aim than anything else). Now if you extended that jump into a short flying hop, all of a sudden the paradigm changed from your plucky trooper performing a daring tactical maneuver into said trooper discovering wat life was like for a *clay pigeon* on a shooting range, as *now* said trooper was a *flying* target, with the to hit bonus that went along with it for all of those lasers, disruptors, and missile systems populating the battlefield…

Leland R. Erickson

I think the weapon loadout will depend on the enemy du jour and the mission.

But speaking in general, you'll want an anti-PA weapon, an indirect-fire weapon, and an anti-vehicle weapon. If conventional infantry still play a role on the battlefield (and they might not if you're fighting in space, where you need a suit just to survive the environment), then an AP weapon.

I'm joining everyone else suggesting a micro-missile launcher. You have a LONG list of warhead options (including small robot scout drones), allowing direct and indirect fire against a range of targets. It's just a very, very flexible main weapon; why carry more weapons when you can carry more kinds of ammo for your main weapon?

(Example ammo types: general HE, AP, incendiary, fragmentation, drone, goop, biochem, EW, EMP)

As a backup weapon, a light assault rifle or energy weapon. The equivalent of carrying a pistol. Maybe a non-lethal option.

Finally, a microbot hive. Carry enough swarms for combat, scouting (and, where appropriate, medic or repair swarms). Swarms are just too useful to leave home: indirect fire that bypasses any armor that isn't totally sealed, and in-depth local surveillance.

If in your setting you can't penetrate vehicle armor with a micromissile, add a heavy weapon with a couple shots (large missile, plasma gun, etc). An extra-large ultra-heavy armor (what in DS2 would be an infantry walker) would be a very valuable assist. Similarly, if point defense is all-powerful, reduce the dependence on missiles, add a direct-fire or energy main weapon, and add a small PD system. If target designation still requires a laser dot, add a designator.

I agree that mobility's important (though too much jumping capability leaves you a sitting duck for enemy fire). Even more important: computer assistance and communications gear. (See Scalzi's Old Man's War for examples of how useful this is in action). Good comm lets you add drones to the party. It also lets you coordinate fire (one guy targeting and the other firing, or calling in off-table mini-missiles).

The biggest factor, of course, is power. At one end of the spectrum, you have suits that are unstoppable, but have little staying power, so they complement conventional infantry. At the other end, you could have suits with microfusion reactors or some such that can operate indefinitely, as long as it has ammo. Power also determines how much you'll depend on energy weapons.

Eli: automatic shotgun, selectable ammo, fin stabilized HE slugs? Sounds like Terry Crews's character in The Expendables.

Heinelin himself mentioned a "heavy weapons section" in SST the novel as well, implying such heavier ordinance for his Mobile Infantry.
How do you get heavier than a NUKE!?

The Troopers carried 1 to 2 Kiloton bombs, simply because hauling an equivalent 'daisycutter' HE weapon would have been impractical – I assume the HW teams carried demo charge-style bombs that took out entire blocks or bigger.

As for mobility – Jetpacks aren't needed if the suits have something like those stride extenders that are used by some athletes these days; The spring-loaded stilt-like affairs that increase the length of stride and jumping ability of the wearer. True, too delicate for military use at present, but with new materials and redesigns. . .

But yes, the idea of a load-out with one RF anti-personnel, one light AT weapons and some indirect fire items appeals to me.

I always liked the Nexus Interdict Marines from Kryomek – they had a handheld rifle or similar – like the basic infantry rifle but larger calibre, perhaps with an integral grenade launcher – but also had a grapnel line launcher built into one forearm and could mount a squad machine gun on a shoulder mount, for use in a bounding overwatch role.

Also, it was contrary to the background, but one old 40K army list let you field elite Marines in heavy Terminator armour, each armed with a heavy rotary cannon firing explosive shells and a multi-shot anti-tank missile launcher.

I like the idea of a PA point-man leading a team of normal foot soldiers, especially in an urban setting, when he could trigger booby traps and laugh off AK47 rounds, clearing a path for the more vulnerable infantry, or a squad of PA leading larger infantry formations.

Phil

@Wellspring,

I tyhink you will find most of your list addressed by my initial concept. The specific weapons I listed are based on current tech, but certainly mini-missiles could replace the small grenades.

My load assumes at least two atni-armor missiles for heavy threats, though I think you could likely get away with four missiles.

I'm not too keen on loading EVERYTHING onto the PA. Robot swarms is something I'd rather leave for a support asset or alien tech. I mean if you have access to robot swarm technology then why even bother with PA in the first place. Why not just bomb the area with robot swarms. It's a cool tech idea, but not as something for PA, at least in my mind.

-Eli

Most of it is, but what I'm trying to do is understand what PA's role in a future battlefield is going to be. I don't think they're just infantry in funny suits.

We could go the GZG route and say, "well drones are boring, so let's imagine a kind of sci-fi patina over modern combat". Which is fine.

What I'm doing is saying, "Wait a minute. What's a battle with drones look like? Does PA have a role to play in it?" And I think A) There is and B) it will look pretty cool on the tabletop.

To me, why do you put a foot soldier on the ground in the first place? (Back to Heinlein, incidentally, who asked the same question.) We have bombs now. Why do we still have infantry when we can just send in the airforce? Microbot bombs won't be any more destructive than conventional weapons-- actually considerably less destructive. They'll just be more selective. I can think of two answers.

First, human beings are required for social interaction. There's something lost if the host nation's civilians are dealing with drones as their occupiers. Drones (even with human-level sapience and social ability) simply aren't going to be as accepted as human beings will be. And that makes all the difference when you're trying to win hearts and minds, gather intel and negotiate with community leaders.

The other is that, while AI-piloted drones might be capable of self-managing, and might even be foolproof in some cosmic sense, you'll never get political leaders or voters to accept that. It probably isn't possible to take humans completely out of the decision cycle at the tactical level without them eventually rebelling (or at least pursuing their own interests at their owners' expense).

Given that, the loadout, training and deployment is very different. Swarms are a useful weapon, but they're also very useful for fending off hostile swarms. Most of your gear is designed for personal defense and battle management.

No reason not to use swarms if you want swarms. I'm just saying that swarms are a bit out there for me.

As much as I'd like to include all the hi-tech wizardry, some of it just doesn't make good gaming. I wouldn't know how to make robot swarms look good on the gaming table. Heck, even drones can be tricky to make look good on the board. Power armor with guns and missiles in different shapes and technologies are easy to interpret on the battlefield.

I do agree that drones will almost always be on a leash in reality. In scifi that leash may be pretty long or even removed, but then we are getting into robot armies which are a cool idea. Of course, at that point you have to ask why there is even a pilot in the power armor.

-Eli

I'd like to see some teargas, sonic, flash, and smoke weapons on the mix.

"Private Nelson adjusted his HUD display and let the system scan the crowd. Small red boxes appeared around a number of the people mixed throughout out the rapidly approaching rioting crowd. A sweet female voice chimed in ++Twenty Eight confirmed armed Tango's – Threat Level: 2.++ Neslon cleared his throat, Axelord Seven requesting authorization to use Level Two measures, over. Permission granted Axelord Seven, out.
Nelson heard the warning alarms louder than the actual sound of the bricks and rocks hitting his suit. Soundproofing the cabin with a verbal command, his eyes flicked over the console commands selected sonic and gripped the trigger tight. The HUD overlaid a range display over the crowd – when the mob came within 15 meters The sonic icon flicked green and Nelson fired a short five second blast. The front half of the mob fell to the ground clutching their ears. A few further back at the end of the mob suffered through and continued to pelt the mobile suit with rocks and a couple of flaming Molotov's. Flicking his eyes though the menu he selected Gas and launched two from his left shoulder pod. The gas started choking the crowd and already many were starting to break away. Suddenly a flashing red box targeted a single individual in the rear of the crowd shoulder a RPG. ++Warning Threat Level: Three++ Throwing his suit to the side he quickly selected and launched a single smoke grenade at the target.

Using the expanding cover he switched his HUDS vision display to thermal and picked out the armed target moving through the smoke. A digital display appeared in the corner of the screen from Higher Command – Threat Level: Three Approved. The little padlock icon disappeared from over top the weapon systems. Choosing the arm mounted light machine gun he selected burst and fired three round into the floundering image in the smoke. The thermals showed the blood splatter as the man dropped to the ground. With the shots fired the crowd began to run in every direction. The padlocks icons reappeared over the weapon systems the same second a new digital display appeared on screen, Threat Level: Two. Shifting around in his sweaty bodysuit Neslon sighed and began organizing his report…

POwer armor is sort of like a small personal gunship – you'd alter the loadout to suit the mission. Modern US infantry tend to carry some sort of under-barrel attachment to the basic rifle. For unsophisticated suits, some sort of machine gun (a .50 works pretty well on most light targets, no need for a second lighter MG) and over/underbarrel cannon/mortar/recoilless rifle/missile launcher arrangement might work for most situations (like a larger OICW). A more sophisticated suit would have an eyeball operated laser targeter (like the Apache's cannon, but pupil tracking) that linked to the targeting computer to generate a firing solution for the chosen weapon system (which may or may not be onboard).

Anyone else remember the Battlesuit game? :)

Actually, a .50BMG is overkill for most targets that aren't in PA themselves.

I would expect a 'heavy infantryman' type loadout to have a direct-fire weapon comparable to a GPMG or a SAW (probably between the two, actually), with an underbarrel 25mm autoGL like the OCSW and Barrett XM109. If the suit is sufficiently strong, I would expect to see a couple (not more than 4) FGM-172 equivalents. This suit would use conventional infantry grenades.

For a heavier suit, ala Heinlein or Steakley, maybe a 20mm cannon with a short-ranged antipersonnel weapon in the off-hand (like an automatic shotgun), with a heavy ATGM like a Javelin. Still not more than 4 rounds of AT, but a 20mm is no slouch. I would expect the heavy suits to be much more mission-loaded, however, so maybe a 7.62mm minigun for opponents that don't have any armor or maybe just a pair of auto-shotguns loaded with less-lethal rounds for a 'civil disturbance'.

My inclusion of the .50 was to handle mid-level threats, not infantry, though it certainly would be be good for chewing up cover too.

I thought that a GL system that was not on the arm might be more versatile than an underbarrel as it could be used without having to divert the aim of the main anti-personnel gun.

In my original load, the main anti-personnel weapon is a GPMG or SAW allowing for a rate of fire that can suppress infantry targets if need be and that carries enough rounds to maintain a pretty good rate of fire.

I figured up to four LATGM based on an assumption of improvements in the lethality of light anti-armor weapons.

I'm sure everyone is going to have a slightly different idea and I'm not saying the initial load I described is best for all situations. Different nations are going to also have different loads based on how their doctrine incorporates PA.

-Eli

Why do people attach the weapons to the arms?

This limits mobility and creates instances where the weapon will have traversal issues and clearance with the ground.

There is a reason that current web-gear locates a soldier's weapon in the middle of his chest, to allow it to be accessible when it is needed and to be out of the way when the soldier needs his hands.

Other weapons should be mounted in a similar fashion, where they can either be fired by an onboard AI system, or aimed and fired by the soldier himself.

This would suggest that a back/shoulder mount or a hip mounted weapon (similar to a "Steady Cam") would be better than bolting the weapon to the arm of the Power Armor.

And we already have a plethora of micro-drones for soldiers. This is likely to proliferate as time goes by to give any soldier the capability to using either personal, team, squad, platoon, or even higher level drones to their advantage.

Alex,

A power armored trooper is not a regular infantry man and a stabilizer arm is just something else to get in the way.

While I'll agree that there are issues with built-in weapons, this also depends on the type of mounting and the size of the weapon. A weapon that does not have to be wielded by a warrior does not have to have all of the grips, stalks, etc..

Weapons like HMGs and such can always be mounted on an arm in a way that allows them to fold, retract, rotate or otherwise stow out of the way when the arm is needed.

There isn't a lot of room on power armor to mount weapons if you don't use the arms as mounting points.

Rule of cool also applies here too.

-Eli

Also, arm or shoulder mounting allows you to leave the hands free to do something else (like carry a downed suit out of the line of fire) while still shooting.

This discussion on arm weapons got me to thinking. How often are PA going to be used at any considerable range?

Maybe some sort of weapon in the .50 range but with a shorter weapon length would work for PAs packing arm-mounted weapons.

Their backpack grenades and squadmates could cover their retreat. Also, a power armor might be strong enough to drag a fallen comrade with one hand while engaging with the weapons on it's free arm. The PA's grip is bound to be a heck of a lot stronger than a single hand grip from a man and would have the benefit of no pain or fatique as well. Heck, the suits might have handles here and there that are used for one-handed grips when needed.

It's easy from a wargamer's POV to what-if just about any weapons system to death. almost no weapon system is perfect and some even have very serious flaws that are not forseen during their design because they are highly circumstantial (not that dragging casualties is).

All of that said, you could likely come up with an alternative to the arm weapons if you wanted though it might come at the expense of some of the potential firepower of the PA.

-Eli

I did not say "Stabilizer Bar." I don't know where that came from.

My point was strictly about mounting points based upon the real world work that has been done on Exoskeletons.

And, as for having hands free for other work, mounting a weapon on an arm does not necessarily mean that the hands will be free to do something else.

ESPECIALLY if the weapon happens to be in use.

There are all manner of weapons systems that could be mounted to an armored-exoskeleton that would be able to continue to fire upon a target without the suit operator having to attend to the weapon once its task was assigned. And there are all manner of attachment devices and points that would allow for this kind of operation.

If the weapon is mounted on his arm, this means that that arm would NOT be free to use for anything else.

This is not to say that a weapon couldn't be mounted there, it would just have to be something that would be understood as requiring the attention of the suit operator, and that it would limit functioning or utility of other devices while that weapon was in use.

Alex, I got what you were saying.

I just wonder what all you expect a PA to be doing with its arms that aren't related to its primary duty and will come up often enough to ignore the arms as a mounting point and readily available pivot on a humanoid form.

One thing that did occur to me would be to mount the arm-weapons on the outside of the arm from the shoulder and have them worked by the arms when being used. This would allow them to be retracted or folded out of the way of the arms below the elbow. this may have been more along the lines of what you were thinking

-Eli