"Union Flag size" Topic

Gentlemen – how big [inches] was the typical Union flag carried in the field by a Federal regiment?
Thanks in advance

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6 feet high on the pole by 6 feet 6 inches wide.

Same as British Napoleonic Flags, as it happens!

Trajanus has it nailed. The vast majority were painted silk. The Tiffany flags for the Irish Brigade were embroidered, so one side was the reverse of the other. If you are doing 10mm that probably won't be visible.

"so one side was the reverse of the other" Sometimes true, sometimes not. I have seen regimentals made as 2 halves sewn together. That is with a design on 1 side, another on the reverse.

The standard National Ensign and Regimental flags were 6'x6' but the rest had no standard, but were about 6'x6'.
The brigade flags were 4'6" high by 6 feet on the bias, except the artillery which were 4 x 5 to the swallowtail. The divisional flags were 4'6" by 6' ("Flags of the Army of the United States carried during the War of the Rebellion" by the Quartermaster of the Army 1887.)

If the flag was painted, the obverse was usually (but not always) the reverse of the reverse. If it was embroidered, the two sides were different.

Specs called for the "Colors" to be as described, 72" on the staff by 77" on the fly for regiments.
Mass. state issued regimental colors were smaller. The other types of flags all varied in size depending on their purpose. Down to the flank markers which were 18" x18".

Flags of the Army of the United States carried during the War of the Rebellion is a good initial guide, but be careful. It has a number of errors. It was written strictly from the regulations. As such, it ignores what some flags actually looked like when made, new regulations, and is sometimes just plain wrong.

But now we're talking higher command designating flags. Ligniere asked for regimental flag designations. As stated, both the National and Regimental colors were 6' x 6'.

No, as per the regulations, Federal national flags and regimental colors were 6' on the hoist, and 6'6" on the fly.

The majority were made with a matching sleeve (hence the additional 6" on the fly) for the pike, and most (but not all) had 6" gold fringe along the 3 other sides.

Additionally, the flags had hand-twisted silk cords and tassels in branch mixed colors suspended from the base of the eagle or point. These were used to wrap around the colors when furled to keep them in place, being braided loosely in two directions similar to what is done with a maypole. All colors also had either a painted or oiled cloth case, or a rubberized canvas case to cover them in inclement weather and when on the march.

Unlike modern jointed flag poles, the poles used in this period, with one maker's exception, were all a single piece of wood, normally oak, but occasionally maple or some other hardwood. The single exception was a style made by Tiffany, and occasionally seen (but still rare) jointed with a brass "knee" which allowed the pole to be folded back upon itself, so that the entire pole, along with the flag, could be placed inside the waterproof case. This joint was either silver or gold plated to help with preventing tarnish.

One other point to make: The stars were almost always painted with gold-pigment paint, as were regimental designations where used. Prior to the 1850's, Regular US Army flags & colors used silver paint. However, in field use, this tended to tarnish quickly, and was difficult to clean. The stars turned black over time and blended into the blue canton. Therefore, the decision was made to use gilt paint for the stars and designations, as this would not oxidize. However, regardless of the color or pirments, the bulk of these oil paints also used some for of litharge and lead which are away at the silk. This wasn't seen as a problem then, as these flags were meant to be replaced over time, but for those of us interested in preserving the material culture of the war, it had proved difficult to stabilize and preserve.

Thanks to everyone – much appreciated
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"However, regardless of the color or pigments, the bulk of these oil paints also used some for of litharge and lead which eat away at the silk. This wasn't seen as a problem then, as these flags were meant to be replaced over time, but for those of us interested in preserving the material culture of the war, it had proved difficult to stabilize and preserve."

Also a real pain for reenactors. The real flags were assumed a year to 3 in the field. Reeenactor flags probably need to survive for 20 years or more (because of the costs involved). The period oil colors will degrade the silk. Looks good as battle damaged I guess. My unit's PA reserves flag has completely lost the fabric were the stars and seal was. The other period paint is made with egg emulsion. This doesn't eat the silk, but instead does eventually flakes off to dust. I have a Maryland Regimental that will get a repaint and repair this fall because of failing paint. War game flag painting 1800mm scale :-)

Oh yeah. I am in complete agreement with folks who have decided to use acrylics in lieu of oil-based paints for their flags. To be honest, if done properly, you won't be able to visually tell the difference.

When a unit is spending upwards of $1,600 USD for a set of colors, you want to know that they will be around for a number of years, as you can't just send in a request for a new set.

Queen Catharine,

Here ya go. Everything you ever wanted to know about CS flags & colors. Just grab a cup of coffee, tea, or your favorite beverage and peruse the links included.

CS battle flags varied somewhat depending upon the year, theater, maker, point of issue, etc. Sometimes artillery batteries were given infantry sized flags, and vice versa, etc. It comes down to "it all depends……."

But enjoy the link.

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I knew Howard Madaus who contributed much of the information on that link, and whose seminal book on the battle flags of the Army of Tennessee is still a benchmark guide for research. If you can ever locate a copy, muckle on to it and don't let go.

The issue I found with modern Acrylic paint is the stuff can freeze solid on the flag in cold weather. The period paints don't do that.

The study of Civil War flags has come a long way in the past few years, but it seems that the more one studies the increasingly complex the picture becomes. Interestingly, Confederate flags are generally far better covered in the literature, but unfortunately Federal flags are much less well served. The Union volume of Echoes of Glory gives a brief overview of Federal flags. The illustrations therein should be used alongside Chapter IX in Volume 2 of Richard Sauers, Advance the Colors, Pennsylvania Civil War Battle Flags, 1991 to give a somewhat better overview. But the best single source is still Howard Madaus, "The Conservation of Civil War Flags: The Military Historian's Perspective" in Pennsylvania Capitol Preservation Committee, Flag Symposium: Papers presented at the Symposium, Harrisburg, PA, October 29-30, 1987, 1988.

Most Federal units got their flags through the Quartermaster system of depots by the spring on 1862. QM officers at the regimental level sent in a requisition to their brigade QM which in turn forwarded to request up to the department QM. The proper forms then were sent to one of the depots. It was the depot QM officer who let the contracts to the different flag manufacturers.

Some units could, and did, order flags on their own with funds raised for that purpose, but this became less and less common as the war went on. Some special presentation flags were ordered, but these were exceptions and not the rule.

The following is a very short summary of Federal flags. The Quartermaster Department obtained flags through three depots located in New York, Philadelphia and Cincinnati. These depots each utilized their own pattern for both the national and regimental flags. These patterns were in turn further modified by the various sub-contractors that the depots used for the actual manufacturing of the flags.
The New York Depot's suppliers were the firm of Alexander and William Brandon and the company owned by William Scheible. While both of these companies produced an identical pattern of regimental flag their national colours were different.

The Philadelphia Depot obtained flags from four sources. Samuel Brewer had been the primary pre-war contractor and continued to supply a limited number of flags. Brewer was rapidly superseded by Horstmann Bros. and by the company of Evans & Hassall. The latter two companies produced identical national colours, but had noticeable variations in their regimental flags. William Scheible also manufactured an almost identical national flag but is not believed to have made any regimental colours.

The primary sub-contractors working for the Cincinnati Depot were Longly and Bro. and John Shiletto. Note that it appears that the former made more flags than did the latter. The national flags these two companies made were identical but the regimental flags differed. It should be noted, however, that the Cincinnati Depot also distributed a number of flags originally obtained via the Philadelphia Depot (made by either Horstmann Bros. or Evans & Hassell) or the New York Depot (made by Alexander Brandon and others).

Flags were also purchased by both individual states as well as private organizations. Both Horstmann Bros. and Evans & Hassall supplied a number of flags to these purchasers, very often of a pattern only slightly modified from the flags they supplied to the Philadelphia Depot. Tiffany and Co. provided a number of beautifully embroidered national and regimental flags as did the New York company of Paton. In New England the Boston firm of Charles Eaton supplied national and regimental flags of a distinct pattern (with a number of variations) to Massachusetts, Vermont and New Hampshire. In the west Gilbert Hubbard of Chicago and Hugh Wilkins of Louisville provided their own patterns of both national and regimental colours to a number of mid-western regiments.

For the most part each of the different patterns and/or suppliers of flags can be recognized by the flags iconography. But bear in mind that when looking at any collection of Federal flags there are always a good number of flags that do not fall into these categories. As well, even within the established patterns, there are a wealth of subtle variations.

The images below are four "flag guides" I made for quick reference when visiting flag collections back in the 90s.

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