trailape | 12 Aug 2011 9:32 a.m. PST |
Hi I've just started painting some Prussian Landwehr (Warlord Games Plastics, 28mm) for a friend of mine. I'm using Vallejo 70899 Dark Prussian Blue that looks almost black once applied. Was Prussian Blue so dark as to almost be Black? And is the above an appropriate colour for Landwehr Litewka? Cheers |
trailape | 12 Aug 2011 9:35 a.m. PST |
Oh, and sorry for the accidental x post to Nap Naval. |
trailape | 12 Aug 2011 9:39 a.m. PST |
Disregard! I suspect this is the answer: "Frank say that his Minden minis are painted in a darker shade than they appear in the pictures. They appear lighter because of the flash. I use Vajello Dark Prussian Blue over a black primer, followed by a mixture of DPB and Vajello Medium Blue. Sometimes I add a little white to the DPB/MB mixture for a third layer". Found after a simple search. |
summerfield | 12 Aug 2011 10:37 a.m. PST |
Dear Scott There was a great variation in the colour of the Litewka. It varies from a medium blue to almost black. This is covered in my new book that will be out in September. See the extract below. link Stephen |
Oliver Schmidt | 12 Aug 2011 11:27 a.m. PST |
See here: Kurmark Landwehr in Paris 1815 (possibly 1st battalion of the 2. Kurmärkisches Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment – raised in the Pomeranian town of Anklam, west of the river Oder and therefore organised alongside the Kurmark Landwehr, all soldiers of this battalion are reported to have made a vow in 1813 not to shave their beards until Germany was liberated): link Another Kurmark Landwehr in 1813 (2nd battalion of the 2. or the 3. Kurmärkisches Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment – under the assumption that this represents a Landwehr soldier from Berlin):
And here what the blue could look like after 2 years wearig it, if it had been dyed badly: Silesian Landwehr in Paris 1815 (1st battalion of the 2. Schlesisches Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment – this regiment had been the 17th before it was renamed 2nd on 29 January 1814):
Of course the three contemporary artists surely didn't paint the exact shade of blue they saw, the colour the illustrators of the prints used was probably slightly different and may also have deteriorated in the course of the last 200 years, and photographing and rendering in the internet will change the shade again, at least a bit – not to forget the effect of different monitors
Anyway, dying technology was not so good that allover Prussia dark blue would be of exactly the same shade. |
summerfield | 12 Aug 2011 11:59 a.m. PST |
Dear Oliver Wonderful prints. The dye would often bleed after it had been rained on as it had not been properly mordanted. Remember that we did not have synthetic dyes let alone reactive dyes. The Indigo whether from Woad or the Indigo plant was the most light stable of the natural organic dyes of the time. The madder, cochineal and the yellows were not very light stable. This was a serious problem under the hot summer sunshine. Often the new recruits could be easily distinguished by the deeper shade of their facing colours let alone coats. By December 1813, many of the Litewkas were reduced to jackets as the skirts had been used to repair other parts of the uniforms. Stephen |
14Bore | 12 Aug 2011 12:52 p.m. PST |
My suggestion is don't make the whole battalion exactly the same, in uniform, accoutrements, or anything else. Thats my take. |
summerfield | 12 Aug 2011 1:09 p.m. PST |
Dear Skip Yes that is a goo summary. Different headwear as well. These may include French, Prussian, Russian and British stovepipe shakos depending upon date. The Landwehr were well known for their ability to scavenge the battlefield. Even into late August, many Landwehr Infantry were armed with pikes. Stephen |
basileus66 | 12 Aug 2011 1:26 p.m. PST |
As Dr. Summerfield said: dyes trend to fade after a few weeks of exposure to the elements. Even today's synthetic dyes do! (when I was in the Navy, my dark blue uniform faded to an ugly pinkish-blue-grey shade after a few days of maneuvers in the field!) Imagine back then. My advice? Painted them in the shades that you like most. They are your minis, and your enjoyment to watching them in the tabletop is more important than to trying to match the (official) exact hue. Best regards |
summerfield | 12 Aug 2011 1:29 p.m. PST |
Dear Bas That is certainly interesting for me as a Colour Chemist. So it cannot have been dyed with a phthalocyanine dye. Interesting. Also the smaller the figure the lighter we need to paint the blue to make it look correct. Stephen |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 12 Aug 2011 3:53 p.m. PST |
hmm Necron Abyss would be my choice , or that Deadly Nightsahde from Cote des armes.,.with a regal blue highlight.you have to bog it up a bit to cpmpensate for the scale
or if you are "a colour is a colour is a colour" then Prussian blue dallimore like over black. |
Justin Penwith | 12 Aug 2011 10:53 p.m. PST |
Dr. Summerfield, the book looks good, thank you for sharing the sample. However, there may be a few spelling errors in what was there to see. I hope it is not too late for them to be fixed. :) Much success! |
trailape | 13 Aug 2011 1:54 a.m. PST |
Hi Guys Thanks for all the excellent advice. Cheers |
Femeng2 | 13 Aug 2011 6:55 a.m. PST |
The Lithewka was just the Sunday best of most Germans. Prussians were almost black, most of the rest a dark blue. Mr. Hofschroer even notes that special companies were formed of men whose lithewkas were gray. |
trailape | 13 Aug 2011 8:06 a.m. PST |
Hi Stephen Looks great. Given I will be soon working on painting my recently aquired CALPE Miniatures Prussians it will be a 'must' this Christmas (or sooner). 14Bore Good point. I'll be having fairly "rag tag" Landwehr. ;o) Cheers |
summerfield | 13 Aug 2011 2:50 p.m. PST |
Dear Justin Thank you for your comments and hopefully this has been cured. I had PDFed the wrong file. It was too late last night. Stephen |
summerfield | 13 Aug 2011 2:55 p.m. PST |
Dear Scott Calpe miniatures are lovely. I wish I had started collecting and painting figures now. My collection is 15mm rather than 28mm. Most date back over 25 years. Some are even 1st edition Minifigs, Jacobite and Tabletop miniatures. Alas they are currently gathering dust at present as people have gone to 28mm. Stephen |
Femeng2 | 16 Aug 2011 4:01 a.m. PST |
Seems my previous try did not show up. The Lithewka was nothing more than the person's normal Sunday-go-to-meeting outfit. Varied from a faded dark blue,to almost black in Brandenburg. Peter Hofschroer even states that seperate companies were formed by those with grey ones. |
Oliver Schmidt | 16 Aug 2011 4:44 a.m. PST |
That the peasant should change his sunday coat into a litewka was the original idea. It soon turned out that many Landwehr soldiers were not able to cloth themselvs well enough for a campaign. Therefore, the towns and districts had to provide for the litewkas instead, or at least for the still missing ones. Due to the bad experiences of this decentralised system (some battalions were very well equipped, others, from less rich districts, poorly), in the provinces west of the Elbe the clothing was provided directly by the province, resulting in a more homogeneous appearance. I have come accross mentioning of black litewkas only for some Silesian Landwehr battalions. In East Prussia grey litewkas seem to have been not uncommon. Most others were dark blue. The litewkas (all ? only some ?) of the Neumark Landwehr infantry are said to have been of a brighter shade than the ordinary dark blue found elsewhere. But, except for Neumark and Westphalia, the info on uniforms is generally scarce and scattered in memoirs, letters, articles in journals etc. |
14Bore | 16 Aug 2011 4:17 p.m. PST |
I had several mentions of Neumarkers in Ulta-marine coats so had a go at mixing what I felt was a ulta-marine for my Neumarkers. prove me wrong I guess :) |
Oliver Schmidt | 17 Aug 2011 3:04 a.m. PST |
Yes, the Elberfeld manuscript, plate 44c: "Churmärkische Landwehr 10/5 1815" shows a kind of ultra-marine litewka. This soldier is named falsely to be from Kurmark, on 10 May 1815, the 3. Neumärkisches Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment passed through Elberfeld. |
NigelM | 17 Aug 2011 8:20 a.m. PST |
I've always thought that the ultramarine attributed to Neumark Litewkas is the same shade of blue as worn by the Dragoons (but the actual colour of those is just opening another can of worms) |