"Have plastics supplanted their metal equivalents? " Topic

We may have covered this thread before but I am sure there are some updated opinions or perhaps not. Anyway with the growth of a number of high quality plastics in 28mm now available do you think that this has hurt other existing 28mm equivalents. I suppose I want you to think of this from the prospect of if you were going to start a period that had good coverage by plastics would you go with the plastic or metal or both? If you are expanding an existing metal collection would you chose the plastics over the metal figures? Just curious…

Thanks

Not for me. I hate assembling fiddly plastic figures.
Metal all the way!

I am VERY puzzled by all those who would have never considered 28mm Napoleonics, to name one, who were won over because there are now plastic figures…
They are NOT that much cheaper, and take 10 times longer to clean and assemble.

I'm a metal man. You don't save enough to be worth the hassle of assembly. Besides plastic breaks.

I agree w/ John; the assembly time makes most plastics a non-starter. HAT on the other hand has it right, just add backpacks and you are done.

"They are NOT that much cheaper, and take 10 times longer to clean and assemble."

I disagree. I spent the whole day on Wednesday cleaning and assembling figures. It took me twice as long to clean 12 ECW cavalry in metal as it did to clean and assemble (and convert in 5 cases) a dozen zulus, 4 WSS figs and 10 Spartans.

It was 26 plastic figs vs. 24 metal figs. I couldn't wait to start on the plastics after dealing with the metals.

"Besides plastic breaks."

Metal chips, metal breaks and when it does it is a much bigger pita to fix than the damage that occurs to plastics.

To answer the original question, I think my purchasing of metal figures has gone up due to the influx of plastics. I'm starting periods in plastic that I would not have done were the figures only available in metal. I'm also expanding periods in plastic that cause me to increase the amount of metal bought for those periods too.

For example, I'm using Perry plastic French in great coats for Isabellinos. I'm expanding all of my existing great coated units to 24 man units. The carlist units, which aren't available in plastic, will need to be increased as well.

When I see some plastic Ansar in the local store I will buy them and start doing things for the Sudan. Likely I'll do the camel corp and no one makes camel corp in plastic yet so I'll have to buy some more metals for that.

The plastic Greeks have me pulling out some old metal OG Persians to paint as well. Not buying anything there but if I didn't already have them I'd have to buy them and will probably end up buying some other stuff, like Molon Labe Persian allies, to go with them.

Hear, hear!

They haven't supplanted metals for me, but they are a wonderful addition to the options available. Contrary to most, I guess, I actually find them to have more detail than some metal figures.

I choose figures not from what they are made of, but because of their prescence, pose, and general look.

So for me the best figures out there by a country mile are Calpe, which happen to be metal. But Perry Plastics are fantastic too, and I happen to like the subtle variation in poses possible with plastic figures…The detail on the Victrix artillery has to be seen to be believed…

I agree that plastics don't take much longer to prepare, either, especially the Perries…

I think plastics are likely to increase overall sales of metal. Only a fraction of the forces needed for most armies are made in plastic. So, you have to flesh them out with metal. Now on a direct basis say plastic French line vs metal that's a different outcome. Only Companies like Old Glory are likely to stay competitive in that matchup.

Oh, for the record…….I just started 28mm Prussian Naps due to Hat releasing them in plastic.

Thanks,

John

I'm not against plastics, but I don't do very much in 25/28 and there hasn't been anything out in plastics that I want/need/can use. If there was, I'd probably buy them. I agree that they give an addition or an option.

Playing mostly 6mm recently i must say that plastic is a better choice for me. the difference in quality is small and the plastic gets you almost twice as much for the price. Small unit or special item i'm okay with spending more for metal, but when it comes to filling the ranks plastic all the way.

I generally like the plastics. Think they are cheeper but it depends on where ya buy, I guess ? Picked up a bunch of HaT 28s (yeah, they are easier to assemble) for Songs of drums and shakos as well as Blackpowder. The site that Allen mentioned (scalehobbyist.com I think it is) has HaT way cheep per box.

I think for a lot of people, the cost is in the time to paint, not the price of the figure.

I'm happy if plastics give opportunities to others to do what they want, but they are not for me – I have durability concerns, borne out so far by the few I have painted up. No objections to having them in an opposing army.

I prefer metal… but the decent hard plastics, like the stuff GW puts out, don't bother me… except maybe for being lightweight and having less sharp details.

Resin… and that bendy rubber stuff the CMGs use… is the stuff I avoid.

Metal definitely metal much more robust for a start. Started on Victrix plastics for a War of 1812 project to fiddly, to brittle and harder to paint. As for metals chipping if they are primed, base coated and finished properly there should be no issues. I have 25mm Anglo Brunswick 1815 army that I painted in the early 80s they are still going strong I am not sure I could say the same about my plastics in 30 years time. So plastics may be initially cheaper but will they stand the rigours of extended campaigning?

I have plastic sci-fi wargaming models from 1992-4 and they have gone through a great many battles as well as 4 cross-country moves.

I am willing to bet that my plastic historical models will also last for several decades.

Now, do you metalheads find it easy to go through airport security with a case of metal figures? I have never had a problem with my armies of plastic. No alarms ring, no "sir, please step over here" after they examine ever so closely the case as it goes through the xray machine/scanner.

No plastics here, other than the venerable Airfix with
which I started !

I don't like any figures/vehicles which I have to assemble
whether they are metal or plastic.

Limiting, I realize, but I'm too far along in life to
do things I really don't care to do in order to 'enjoy'
the hobby…

i think the growth of 28mm plastics (and now 15 and 20mm i'm looking at you psc)is the greatest thing to happen to the retail part of the industry in a long time. non miniature stores eg toy stores can now stock a box on a shelf that doesn't need the same care that a metal range in blisters or hanging bags does. a buyer whether its a kid or a parent can pick up a box and its self explanantory, theres a pretty picture, a big handful of miniatures in many cases and all you need is a bit of glue and some paint and you're away. I think victrix even includes a simple set of rules in their boxes. this is how GW has gotten as big as they have by offering an easy product not a high brow one.

Personally if i was starting say Naps i wouldnt do it in metal but if the option was there in plastic i might be tempted to dabble. I know many miniature buyers who hate metal with a passion even to the point of preffering resin.

If faced with assembling a metal figure and a plastic figure I'd much rather assemble the plastic figure. Anyone who has tried to assemble an Infinity figure or large GW monster in metal truly knows the tortures of hell.

I have done some 28mm HaT Bavarians and they look great on the table. However, they are not as robust as the metals. The couple of Perry plastics that I have seem to be more robust so I don't want to draw any final conclusions on the durability of plastics vs. metal. That said, I like the Old Glory 2nd generation metals a lot and they are very price competitive with all plastics if you have the Old Glory Army deal.

Greg C.

OFM:

I am VERY puzzled by all those who would have never considered 28mm Napoleonics, to name one, who were won over because there are now plastic figures…
They are NOT that much cheaper, and take 10 times longer to clean and assemble.

I NEVER considered Napoleonics-not even once- until Perry released the plastic Hussars. I am starting the period for the sole reason that plastics are becoming more available in 28mm. I enjoy assembly as much, if not more, than painting. My calculator indicates that they are less expensive (not much, granted), although for me that has not been a concern.

I was simply amazed with the quality of the Perry zouaves from start of assembly to the last lick of paint, I was practically drooling. I suspect the Ansar are just as nice.

My first napoleonics were the Perry British. Had plastics not been available, I wold not have considered that period. A batallion is included, it has clear instructions, flags and a painting guide. If I had bought metals, I would have in several blisters and I would have to buy a few Osprey books fot painting reference.
I will continue to buy Perry plastic napoleonics, and I am considering Victrix.

No, but I'd guess in 5-8 years, increased plastics options plus the maturity of cheap 3-D printing (for limited-run figures) will have made various forms of plastic the industry leader.

Right now they are a very nice addition.

If that 3-D printed plastic is durable and rigid… like the GW stuff… then yeah, I'd be in. Right now though I haven't liked what I've seen of it.
Also, I live in the desert… distinct possibilities of the minis being stuck in a car with high temperatures. Metal is less likely to melt, warp or become a crumbly mess.

I'm with John. I don't like putting them together. I also don't like they are less weight. That metal is slightly more in cost doesn't bother me.

Fantastic comments everyone and I had not considered that plastics might actually drive metal sale up, but then I should have just looked at my own recent buying habits more closely.

I have large mostly painted collections in 28 mm metal for Vikings, Ancient Greeks, and the ECW. Because of the plastics that have come out for these eras I have either expanded or I am considering expanding these collections. Pictor's comments made me realize that in addition to acquiring plastics for my ECW units I felt I could splurge on more metals as well in particular for special units.

I am considering buying boxes of both the Immortal Hoplite figures and the Gripping Beast Saxons to add to the relevant collections. However, as gamer logic will go once I make those purchases then the savings will then go toward other units types that are only available in metal.

Ditto the Abominable Snowman is right I should have made 28mm part of the heading; however, I glad I did not because yes the plastics are expanding in other sizes as well and I have been looking at some of those 15mm WW II lines.

As to putting plastics together that aspect has never bothered me and in fact is one of things that I find fun about them. I think plastics are easier to put together and yes they loan themselves well to easy conversions.

Please continue the discussion.

I am with Dr Mathias, I started Napoleocnics in 28mm due to the availability of plastic figures.

John, while you say "They are NOT that much cheaper", they are. Victrix you can pick up from internet dealers for as little as 17 GBP (with postage to Finland). For a box of up to 60 figures that works out at 28.3p per figure or 0.46 USD at the current exchange rate.

Old Glory (without postage) with the army card discount comes in at 0.70 USD a figure, but this is only a cheap option for US customers (and if you buy in sufficient bulk to make the army card worthwhile).

In Europe the cheapest metal figures (with delivery to Finland) would be about 1.15 USD and something like Perry in metal (equivalent standard of sculpting to Perry in plastic) come in at 2.05 USD (Perry plastic cavalry can be got for 1.85 USD with delivery to Finland, while the metal equivalent cost 5.08 USD).

i.e. plastic 28mm Napoleonic figures come in at around 25-35% of the cost of the metal equivalent.

They ARE that much cheaper.

Once they are based the weight is not a problem (in fact the reverse once the get up to a defcent number of units).

Oh I should add that the plethora of plastics in 28mm for Napoleonics does tempt me to want to collect and game that period. And cost is not as large a factor given the scope of what is available. I do know that if the Perry's continue to expand plastics for their Sudan range I will eventually give in.

I love assembling the plastics. More than painting the things. I've done two battalia packs of ECW and four boxes of Victrix napoleonic and the customisation opportunities are brilliant; head swaps, arm swaps, changing the way men are holding their weapons… really easy to do.

no …larger companies can because they can afford the huge outlay for production . Smaller comapnirs do not sell enough to justify the plastic route .

20mm plastics have for this gamer. All the way, the future is bright, the future is light, the future is plastic !

I love Metal figs and always have done but plastic ones are starting to get better and better not to mention cheaper, i put quality over nostalgia.

no …larger companies can because they can afford the huge outlay for production . Smaller comapnirs do not sell enough to justify the plastic route .

Yet those small companies will find themselves competing with the metals cranked out by the bigger companies.

That said, amongst the companies cranking out historical plastics, there are quite many that have been started rather recently – and who had plastic sets as some of their first releases.

I recently switched to 28mm naps thanks to perry/victrix, bought about 220 infantry and artillery for about 120 dollars would have spent 500 for metal but then i would not have bought them,

I prefer plastic as a medium. Metal has its uses, and I don't think for a moment that in the foreseeable future that it will cease to be used, but for any period involving large numbers of troops, I argue that hard plastic is superior.

For me, the cost element is a red-herring. It is more that plastic is easier to work with, to convert, and rather unintuitively is more robust than metal. It also expands less in the heat, which in metal minis can lead to the shedding of paint.

I'm going to contradict my earlier post now. I just saw the title of the Victrix post about Brit Heavy Cav, assuming they were referring to plastics. When I saw they were referring to metals I felt quite deflated.

I'm not sure why, I think its because there is no shortage of metal Brit Hvy Dragoons out there, Perry and Front Rank spring to mind immeadiately, whereas plastics are still uncharted waters as far as both Victrix, and Brit Heavies in general are concerned…

So perhaps it is the novelty value?

"no …larger companies can because they can afford the huge outlay for production . Smaller comapnirs do not sell enough to justify the plastic route ."

The industry giants like Immortal miniatures and Conquest.