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"Mortimer's Cross Scenario help..." Topic


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Comments or corrections?

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2011 6:13 p.m. PST

Ive chosen this scenario as a first to do in 28mm due to the colorful forces involved and the relatively smaller scale forces on both sides.

The only drawback is the lack of info on the battle compared to others during the period.

Here's who Ive got listed as Battle commanders for the engagement:

Lancasters:
Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke
James Butler, 5th Earl of Ormond, 1st Earl of Wiltshire
Owen Tudor

Yorkists:
Edward, Earl of March
Sir Walter Devereaux
Sir William Herbert

The only other noble of note I have on either side is Sire William Hastings with the Yorkists.

I have the Irish, Breton & French mercenaries present with the Lanc's of course.

For livery colors I have Jasper Tudor, Edward of March, William Hastings, Walter Devereaux, & William Herbert sorted out.

That leaves me just with Wiltshire & Owen Tudor to figure out. Owen, I'm making the leap of assuming used the same livery as his son, Jasper (Green & White)?

Wiltshire, I have no info on Livery nor battle flags or heraldry altogether. Any other nobles, knights, etc.. you know of that were present at the battle would be much appreciated!

Thanks for any input on the above!

I'm hoping to game the battle in about 1:20 scale which should put lots of troops on the table without being unmanageable. I'm starting on the mercenaries tonight.

U.K.

Given Up05 Jul 2011 7:39 p.m. PST

I suggest you get the four Freezywater booklets on the War of the Roses (WOTR). All are paperback 6" x 8". Available from On Military Matters in the US, probably Caliver Books in the UK. If you are interested in the WOTR these are an excellent value.

Heraldic Banners of the WOTR – 3 volumes, nobles listed by county.

Standards, Badges and Livery Colours of the WOTR. – 1 volume.

Sir James Butler.
Arms: Quaterly; 1 and 4 Or a chief indented Azure; 2 and 3 Gules 3 covered cups Or.

Cheers,

Jim

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2011 9:22 p.m. PST

Any idea how that transfers into livery colors Jim?

Given Up05 Jul 2011 11:17 p.m. PST

I'm sure more knowledgeable folks will be along to provide better answers.

I am NOT an expert, but livery colors could be whatever the provider wanted or had at hand or could get cheaply. There is very little agreement as to who issued what colored livery when. I just make mine up in generally useful colors. Theoretically, the two main colors of a nobles Standard were used for their livery color. The top color on the figure's right side, the lower color on the left. In theory. Use the noble's Standard, not his Banner. Big difference. Again see the Freezywater pubs and search the TMP Medieval forums.

I agree with Craig, the author of the "generalheadquarters" blog. He made a generic list of livery colors and follows that. I have a similar list and don't worry about it being wrong or right. No one really knows for sure. Cloth, dyes, weather, wear and tear probably made uniform liveries a very short-lived thing.

Paint them as you think reasonable.

link

link

A quick search on "livery" in the TMP Medieval Discussion board found these. Many have more links to other sources.

TMP link

TMP link

TMP link

TMP link

TMP link

Cheers,

Jim

vexillia06 Jul 2011 1:41 a.m. PST

Any idea how that transfers into livery colors Jim?

This should help – bit.ly/piD70N

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
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vexillia06 Jul 2011 1:42 a.m. PST

I suggest you get the four Freezywater booklets on the War of the Roses (WOTR).

All available from the Vexillia book store – bit.ly/pPl1IC

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
vexillia.ltd.uk
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Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2011 2:17 a.m. PST

@ Martin, does Butler's (Wiltshire) flag appear anywhere in the Freezywater 25mm flags?

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2011 2:40 a.m. PST

Found this useful little page:
link

vexillia06 Jul 2011 3:08 a.m. PST

Martin, does Butler's (Wiltshire) flag appear anywhere in the Freezywater 25mm flags?

Yes. His heraldic flag is on WRF 33.

For a searchable catalogue see – bit.ly/r7om9L

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
vexillia.ltd.uk
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pikeandplunder.vexillia.ltd.uk
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Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP05 Apr 2012 11:28 p.m. PST

Have since located this:
link

picture

Just finally back to painting minis!

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