"I Hate Warhammer Because..." Topic

The top five reasons you dislike Game Workshop's Warhammer fantasy ruleset?

1. limited world to play in
2. Chaos
3. points driven min-maxed army lists
4. Codices and units going obsolete
5. really darn expensive

By 'limited' I mean you are pretty much constrained to playing in the WFB universe so if you don't like the way they do elves or dwarves or whoever that's rather too bad

Blocks of troops – I just don't like pushing around a square it isn't fun for me. Really this hits a lot of games and eras but I cannot stop thinking I am just pushing around a square.

Before I realized that I bought and painted small armies of about every warhammer army but elves, don't like them either.

Only have my marauder dwarves and halflings left to repaint when I feel the mood hit me.

expensive
rock, paper, scissors
planned obsolescence of codices and rules
all the other haters constantly bashing
expensive, yes twice.

1. Chaos: its just stupid. God its stupid. Its so stupid I feel brain cells dying just thinking about it.

2. Skulls. Everything is covered in skulls. Sure, it looks dead-hard to 12 year olds. and it looks incredibly stupid to anyone with above a room-temperature IQ.

3. points driven min-maxed army lists

4. Codices and units going obsolete

5. It tries to be so epic and dark that you imagine the faux-gothy-characters pee black, but ends up being so comedic that I want to punch someone in the face. Twice. Just to make sure they get the memo.

I quit playing Games Sweatshop games quite a few years ago. I was tired of playing with pizza faced teens whos armies weren't painted, and who were always "oh hey, these guys, they're like terminators". And the constant price hikes. And the 'Gaming Magazine' that was little more than advertizing you paid to look at. Anyone remember when White Dwarf had real articles instead of lots of expert painted figures? Adventures for role playing games? How-To articles?

I think it is one of the cheapest 28mm mass fantasy games to get into, depending on which armies you play.

I appreciate more about Warhammer than I don't.

But, there are some issues.

1. rules collapsing under their own self destructive weight
2. superheroes…if I want to play super powered characters than I will play Champions
3. the best army is the newest army
4. overly restrictive lists…it is like playing with the guy who will take his ball and leave
5. cartoonish vision…from mohawked dwarves to the tongue wagging gobbos and much much more

Anyone remember when White Dwarf had real articles instead of lots of expert painted figures? Adventures for role playing games? How-To articles?

Good times, good times. Halls of Tizune Thane anyone? I was just reading through my old issues. The game reviews were a bit naff though. Anywhoo…

I Hate Warhammer Because… it's not Warmaster/Hail Caesar.

Yeah way too many skulls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"5. It tries to be so epic and dark that you imagine the faux-gothy-characters pee black, but ends up being so comedic that I want to punch someone in the face. Twice. Just to make sure they get the memo."

Phil for the win!

…it (like 40k) started from a group of gamers that loved what they did and brought that vision to the masses. However, over the years, they had to turn "corporate" to survive as a viable company, which inevitably makes them what they are today. Shame things have to turn out that way…

I guess the thing I don't like most is wheeling units.

1. Strict IGOUGO turn sequence

2. Total dependence on an silly point driven army building system

3. I don't mind the updated army lists in theory, but I absolutely hate the reality that the updates completely invalidate anything built by prior editions of the lists

4. Near necessary characters and yet no command rules… what the , over?

1) the world used to be dark and scary, but has now turned into some sort of cartoon.
2) the keep re-releasing the damned rules.
3) randomised charge distances? what the ?
4) the figures being so expensive that it would probably be cheaper to become a heroine addict instead.
5) I really, really, really don't like 8th ed.

Actually I don't hate it at all. My dislike is that GW is stuck with a basic set of core mechanics that were outdated a decade ago and they are aware that better ones exist.

Thanks,

John

Special rules for everything.
Snailishly slow.
Super units wipe the floor with everything.
Stupid removal of casualties means table clutter by "dead guys."

Don't hate, just grew away from. A natural process as o got pulled in by historicals and other fantasy games and minis.

Hate is a very strong word. Here are some reasons why I think it's a really boring game:

Ugly miniatures. (With the occasional exception.)
Overall bad and boring rules: IGOUGO; silly charges; hit, toughness & saves is too much, etc.
Too much dependency on übertroops and -monsters/-heroes.

I wouldn't say hate, but there a lot of things to dislike, most of which have been mentioned above.

Personally I've come to the realisation after all this time that I just don't like the concept of relatively small groups of individually based 28mm miniatures representing large rank and file formations. That's probably my number one reason for not getting back into Warhammer, of any edition.

If I was to use Warhammer on any level now it would be a small skirmish version (such as Mordheim) in which case my biggest beef would probably be IGOUGO.

Don't hate nothin' except hatred

It was used to kill Man'O'War.

Warhammer. Hate the way the empire has slowly morphed from being realistic looking german inspired troops to being odd looming religious nuts carrying skulls scrolls and purity seals everywhere. Bring back the older more simple ones.

Don't like the overpowered heroes. Any hero charged by a whole unit of anything should be killed out right.

The kislevite horse men and winged lancers have vanished. Albion,the Norse, Cathay all get mentioned but never any new armies while the empire and orks get done over every two or three years.

Plastic and now resin.

Price,
Rules turnover (price)
Fanboys whinging about proxies (price)

The rules, price, army books, unbalanced game, special rules spread over numerous books, min-maxing, cast.

gets bleeped? ?

1) The rules are outdated now.
2) I miss the Norse , the Norse Dwarves and the Kislevites.
3) I don't like what they did with the Bretonnians , I prefer them as the sleazy medieval kingdom of the RPG rather than the sub-Arthurian state.
4) Figures are too expensive.
5) Armies changing with every new Army Book.

The prices.

Yeah, what they said.

I've got no complaint with their figures, I buy them when I can get them on the cheap (like all figures). My basic issue is that I like one die roll kills. Roll to hit, roll for armor then roll to save is a PITA and takes more time than just one roll. It also means lower body count because it takes longer to remove figures and a table bowed with lead is a big attraction to me.

Please include a link for 'I've never played the game.'

Don't hate, just grew away from. A natural process as o got pulled in by historicals and other fantasy games and minis.

Same here.

Ogre Kingdoms. I mean, WHY???

A year or so ago, I could have filled a screenwith reasons. But dammit 8th edition and I just seem to get along fine, for the first time in years and years.

Price is an issue though. I was lucky that I had armies already, and despite GW's rep, nothing has become obsolete.

Leigh

The lack of command control rules (if they would use a modified Warmaster system, it would be great)
IGOUGO
New Army books sometimes completely removed.
Casualty removal
Chasing down units

Erik

Needs lots of figs.
Figs must stay in formations.
Set up for powergaming tournaments.
Fanboys.

1. Too Expensive
2. Too Childish
3. Too Cartoonish
4. Silly Characterizations
5. Because its there.

I don't like the fact Warhammer seems to be tournament driven.

"No one plays it in 15mm." No one in your state anyway. Show some of your locals the Demonworld line and say the magic words "Whole army for $50".

Ahem.

1. GW's current writers are vindictive, favoritist, and (possibly) ignorant about the interaction of the rules they cheerfully modified a year ago.

2. Units that stay useless through multiple editions and army revisions.

3. Units that were awesome for three editions in a row and are NOW useless.

4. More of a Dislike: Dwarfs as Tiny Vikings. They used to be more interesting.

5. The ongoing pigeonholing of the armies, as seen in the unceremonious removal of mercenaries, Empire Dwarfs, and others.

I can't think of five things I hate, but here are the two strongest dislikes (and they're related):

using models that I've spent quite some time painting as hitpoint markers

moving troops in blocks

Hate might be too strong a word, but:

1. Story background is silly, derivative and over the top. No different from any other gaming universe but GW talks it up so much; some players are so narrowly read they consider it good fiction.

2. Generally there is a core set of game mechanics but these are offset by so many rules exceptions, it gets hard to appreciate it for what it is.

3. In each version of the game there is some aspect that seems not to be balanced for its points and thus is disproportionately unbalancing when maxed out.

4. Too many models required to finish an army quickly for me.

5. Emphasis on only using GW models. The overall gaming community seems more relaxed about this nowadays fortunately.

1) Having to keep buying new rules and codexes (which are now hard back).

The setting is too cartoony and unrealistic

They keep changing the rules and army lists

Too expensive to keep up with

It's over represented in stores compared to other fantasy battle games

They don't continue to support armies, but are dropped out of the official cannon.

""oh hey, these guys, they're like terminators"."

As he points at the Halfling Archers that he is using.

1. UGOIGO
2. Game is design for WAACer's
3. Allows the use of Special Characters
4. There is no balance between the armies
5. It is control by GW

I don't hate Warhammer but I have moved on to other games over the last 5 years after about 20 years of playing almost everything GW did. I used to have fun with GW but now I find some things to painful and annoying to want to make an effort to keep playing. I still like my GW collection and wan to use them in other games. Too many years and too many dollars spent on them to want to let them go.

1. GW's company policies designed to aggravate and drive away people who would actually like to buy their toys. Covers price, finecast, treatment of stores that I use and brain washed uber fans that jump on you for not following the company line.

2. Continually redoing the army books, rules, models and never finding any balance. I'd be happy to buy new books if they were "better" instead of just different and more expensive.

3. Getting rid of armies and units I liked and spent a lot of time collecting and painting.

4. Too many special rules. Why have the basic rules at all when every unit has it own rules and doesn't follow what's in the main book?

Slow play due to archaic Hit/Damage/Save/Ward system. Means players just sit around generating random numbers.

Archaic you go/I go with no Command Control (a huge factor in medieval battle).

Single figures.

No battle lines but instead odd masses of single figures (which you need magnets to hold to bases).

Poorly playtested rules additions/subtractions.

Solution: Play Hordes of the Things!

TomT

I don't see anyone playing 15mm much less 15mm warhammer.

Not "hate", although I no longer play.

1. Changes to the backstory. Why change cultures/histiries made frm Whole cloth instead of just inventing new nations if thy feel the need to change?
2. Increased "seriousness" of the back story.
3. Special rules. A pet peeve in any game.
4. Stylistic changes in the figyres since the 80's.
5. Army books. Just make one book for all armies.

Don't hate, but some reason I don't play:

1. Essentially no command-and-control.
2. Excessive importance of heroes, magicians, and monsters over rank-and-file troopers.
3. Buckets of dice.
4. Too much and too inconsistent focus on details of equipment. (Just why are wooden clubs and steel swords equivalent, but morningstars differentiated?)
5. Magic minigame and a zillion magic items to keep track of. (This has got better, it's true.)

Notice that pricing isn't on the list. I do think GW's prices are high compared to what you get, but realistically the limiting factor in my minis acquisition would remain painting time, not money, if I got into Warhammer again.

Wow, all the dislike for the word "hate!"