"Best FPW Rules?" Topic

What IYHO are the "best" rules for the FPW as far as the
smaller scales are concerned (6mm, 10mm, and maybe 15mm)Comments, recommendations, and battle report examples welcome. Thanks Bob

Hi, the question needs further clarification.

What size will your basic unit be?

How long do you want a game to last?

How many units do you want a player to command?

Thanks,

John

This comes up once in a while…

TMP link

TMP link

My pick: To the Last Gaiter Button

link

I am toying with 1870 for my 6mm gangs. They Died for Glory works well and we have plyaed some good 28mm Corps level games! It should also work for 15mm,

Tally Ho!

For realistically-sized playable battles and a chance to campaign the whole war, To the last gaiter button.

I looked at TTGB but was not keen on the rule system, however once past the current Renaissance frenzy will utilize the campaign system which I do like!,

Tally Ho!

Volley & Bayonet… hands down.

Joe Collins

What about rules for use with units representing battalions or, at most, regiments that also address 1859-1866?

To The Last Gaiter Button looks interesting [in my as-yet unplayed pile] but I found Black Powder works well for the period.

I have 6mm armies and use 2 60 x 40mm bases as a unit and cm instead of inches for movement and range etc…seems to work well.

Bob and Forager,

For the smaller scales, Larry Brom has included conversion rulers in his Chassepot and Needlegun rules, which were designed for 25/28mm. Each unit represents a battalion of infantry, a regiment of cavalry, or a battery of artillery. You can get them from Larry at sergeants3.com The rules contain supplements for the 1859-1866 period as well. Although these rules are simple and fun (as are all of Larry's rules), they replicate the feel of the battles of the Franco-German War, IMHO.

With the smaller sized figures, but using a 8' x 4' or 8' x 5' table, you would have more options for the types of battlefield maneuvers that characterized this war.

Some battle reports at link Just scroll down to "19th Century Wars in Europe" section for battle reports using both 15mm and 25/28mm figures.

Jim

I also like the looks of To The Last Gaiter Button, but have yet to play them. Then again, I like grid-based wargames.

Another vote for They died for glory

And another for To the Last Gaiter Button.

Mollinary

I have a copy of the 1870 rules for my as yet unpainted 6mm Baccus FPW and although I havent yet played them they do look quite good for what I want to achieve. The rules have a wealth of background information in them as well as having OOB for all the major engagemnts as well as rules/timings/scenarios and maps for each of the major engagements whic makes everything nice and easy. Overall a lovely looking and sounding set of rules.

I am in now way, shape or form linked to these rules.

Been using "They Died For Glory" for years in 15mm. Great set of rules.

Personally, I find that smaller scale rules such as "They Died for Glory" causes problems visa vie the ranges of rifles and artillery.

There is no approach. units are within cannon range coming on the table and the games develop with infantry, particularly the French, rushing from cover to cover by brigade and battalion to avoid artillery fire. Much is the same for the Prussians and Chassepot fire. As weapons ranges increase, the table distances need to increase to keep a reasonable relationship between fire and maneuver. As it is, smale scale FPW rules end up be straight-ahead advances etc because the units start too close to do much else. It does reduce any movement/time issues because of this.

I find 1870 scale rules a more satisfying scale for that reason, among others.

Bill

I've got both 'They Died for Glory' and '1870' and I've decided to go with the latter. Nothing wrong with the former, as they are very solid and well supported, but I feel that the scale and scope of 1870 is more appealing. I'm using 10mm figures on slightly larger bases than recommended so I can squeeze a few more troops on them for visual effect.

If you use the scenarios provided, TDFG does allow approach marches and yes the French are always in range of German Artillery as they were in the war. If you belong to the 1870 or TDFG Yahoo! Groups I have some photos of our games posted there.

I find TDFG an easier set of rules, you can get up to speed on them easily. I can't play any smaller than 15mm. 6mm has never appealed to me as I would just assume play a board game. Keep in mind there are plenty of people playing those rules in 25mm. But 15mm feels right to me. TDFG uses battalions which is what I prefer.

There are some really nice figs in 15mm and you can at least see some uniform details. 1870 are the more detailed rules but for us TDFG is more playalbe and more fun.

I have 3 sets now!

I enjoy TDfG, lots of battalions and flags and stuff!
1870 – I have, I like the concept and will use them for my 6mm stuff.
Black powder – with a few tweaks fun for a club night and I am setting up a larger game based on the scenario in WI last year,

Tally Ho!

TDFG does allow approach marches and yes the French are always in range of German Artillery as they were in the war.

I'm not sure you know what I mean by the approach if you think that no matter where the French were they were always in range of German Artillery. They didn't have rail guns and Big Bertha.

If you play both 1870 and TDFG, you'll see what I mean. In TDFG, unless you have a forest or hill to hide behind and deploying for battle or forming up for an attack is under fire. You don't want to just sit thre shaking out units. In 1870 you can control when and how you enter artillery range.

For instance, the Germans were used to bringing their columns up and deploying into their battle line at about 400-600 yards. They were surprised when they took Chasseport fire much further out. All they had to do was deploy further out. The same is true of the French and the German artillery.

No such option with TDFG. It makes for a very different tactical experience. As I said, instead of forming up for battle typical of the war, the French and Germans are best advised to sprint from cover to cover where they can to avoid casaulties like some WWII infantry squad.

As I said, just my opinion. It might help to scale down TDFG, but I know using smaller scales and/or smaller figures cuts across the visual appeal of TDFG. I certainly agree that it is an easier set of rules and well-designed.

Bill

Oi Scottish Chappie!

(Could not resist that!) I think that is the same for any 28mm rule set, much depends on the size of the table, but even on my 12 x 6 there is not a massive amount of room. Currently I have the Froeschwiller Scenario for Black powder that was in MW last year. Even with about 2/3 less troops than the same scenario in TDfG it is pretty busy and targets will be falling when hit quite quickly.

I am working on my 6mm terrain so that I can deploy my 6mm stuff and 1870, soon!

Tally Ho!

In TDFG my units start deployed. I don't have to waste time approaching (now that I know what you mean) the battlefield stopping form up into whatever formation we are going to fight in then attack. This is easy for the French because they are always deployed. You don't need that extra space to form up because you begin the game historically set up.

All scenarios are on a 5 x 8 the Prussians usually has off board artillery. The Prussians usually are already deployed as are the French. The effectiveness of Chassepot fire is another subject. But as the Prussian I just throw out a skirmish line in front they get killed and I throw out another one etc. The French should have shells raining down on them almost all the time. In case you don't know the French lost this war, big time and the German artillery was one of several reasons which we all know and I wont get into now. We take turns playing the French. I have only won with the French once, in fact that maybe the only time the French has ever won. It is something you just have to accept.

I guess the crux of the issue is do you want to play 6mm or 15mm. I won't even consider 6mm. In 6mm it is all about the terrain. The figures even in mass do not have enough visual impact. If the terrain looks perfect your okay. But how many people on a regular bases games with terrain like you see at Historicon? I would just assume play a board game.

They get lost in the aerial view of the terrain. Besides I can't get enough detail on them for me to notice. The only way for me to paint them is with spray paint. I am of the age that I have trouble painting 15mm. But my point is the major attraction for a number of people to this period are the uniforms. I will admit we started it just because the uniforms are so cool looking.

I suspect that is why I have seen large battles fought in 28mm all over the internet because the figures and uniforms look so darn great. I don't care how much time or what pro-painter spray paints your 6mm figures for you. You are loosing one of the most appealing features of this war, the uniforms.

In TDFG my units start deployed. I don't have to waste time approaching (now that I know what you mean) the battlefield stopping form up into whatever formation we are going to fight in then attack. This is easy for the French because they are always deployed. You don't need that extra space to form up because you begin the game historically set up.

Well, actually 'stopping to form up' isn't a waste of time when it determines when, where and how units will come under fire and dictates the rest of the battle.

In case you don't know the French lost this war, big time and the German artillery was one of several reasons which we all know and I wont get into now.

Uh, yeah. The French should have shells raining down on them almost all the time--once they are in range. However, without any control over when and where to entire that malstrom of Prussian shell, the French lose one of their major tools in living through it. Throwing out skirmishers as sacrafices to the Artillery God isn't exactly FPW tactics…

Yes, in TDFG units are already deployed. Infantry with the ability to only move 300 to 450 yards every 15 minutes, or just a mile an hour, they have to be fairly close to the enemy at the beginning of the game. One of my real beefs with many games at 50 yard to an inch or lower like Regimental Fire and Fury is this very ahistorical limit to movement. Most all wargames at the 50 yard scale or less seem to have this 6 to 9 inch convention for infantry movement. There are a number of fire and time issues that are avoided [I should say dodged] by simply slowing down movement, though the slow speed has nothing to do with how fast units actually could and did move historically.

The only way this slow speed works is to have units setting up already deployed and close to the enemy. In the historical FPW battles, units were actually able to move across the battle field--under fire--at twice the speed or more than found in TDFG.

If I can make an analogy. Say you are going to simulate Freeway traffic during a weekday. What speeds would you allow? Most game designers average unit speed on the battlefield--or simply follow conventions, so in this case you would average stop-and-go traffic at rush hour and those times when traffic is really thin. Thus, on average, cars move at 30 miles an hour over the course of an entire day.

Obviously the problem is that the only time this speed limit will be 'historical' will be at rush hour when cars aren't going above 30 miles an hour. Drivers in this little simulation have no choice but to be in rush hour traffic all day long with no decisions on how to avoid it or hurry up.

It neither represents actual traffic conditions during the day, nor what speeds cars could travel on the freeway, but it does avoid simulating all those messy reasons for changes of speed and the decisions drivers make in traffic or by chosing when to get on and off the freeway. Everything is simple, and simply not freeway traffic.

I guess the crux of the issue is do you want to play 6mm or 15mm.

Well, it certainly is an issue, but not mine here. I can understand the dislike of the 'aerial view' of the troops. In Bruce W's 1870, the terrain becomes the real attraction, against the massed 6mm troops. I have yet to see a close-up of his 6mm paint jobs. ;-j Different affect.

I do love the uniforms, the beauty of the painting, and of course the visual grandeur. I play both, 6mm and 15mm. I also have 28mm and 54mm armies too… Now, 54mm is when you REALLY get to see the uniforms and painting where aging eye-sight isn't an issue…

Bill