"Livery & Badges for Bosworth & Stoke Field" Topic

I'm soon going to be painting up some troops for the War of the Roses. I've always had a soft spot for Richard III but thought I'd do some for Stoke too as the Yorkist army there seems quite interesting with a mix of European mercenaries, Irish troops and some Englishmen.

I've found a few livery coat colours but I wondered if anyone knows of any more or could suggest something plausible.

So far, for the main players, I have:

Richard III – Red & blue coats, white boar badge
Norfolk – Red coats
Surrey – Red & white coats
Northumberland – Red & black coats

However, I was wondering if anyone knew of coat colours for smaller figures such as Brackenbury, Ratcliffe or Catesby?

As far as information on Stoke Field goes, I've been able to find very little so if anyone has any information on possible colours for Viscount Lovell, John de la Pole – Earl of Lincoln, Thomas Fitzgerald or Martin Schwarz I would be very grateful!

all I have compiled so far

Edward Neville, Lord Abergavenny [d.1476] – green and white
William Fitzalan, Earl of Arundel [d.1487] – red and white
John Touchet, Lord Audley [d.1490] – yellow and red
John, Viscount Beaumont [d.1460] – white
William, 7th Lord Berkeley [active until at least 1483] – red
John Bouchier, Lord Berners [d.1474] – yellow and green
Humphrey Stafford, Duke of Buckingham [d.1460] – black and red
(also Henry Stafford d. of Buckingham, d.1483).
Sir Thomas Burgh/Borough of Gainsborough [d.1496] – blue
George, Duke of Clarence [d.1478] – murrey and blue
Thomas, Lord Clifford [d.1455] – white
Brooke, Lord Cobham [Edward d. 1464, John d. 1515] – black and red
Sir Marmaduke Constable [d. 1518] – red
Sir John Conyers [d.1490?] – white
Sir Richard Croft [d.1509] – white and blue
Randolf/Ranulph Lord Dacre of Gilsland [d.1461] – four stripes barry yellow and blue
Sir Richard Fiennes, Lord Dacre of the South [d.1483] – white
Thomas Courtney, Earl of Devon [1st, d.1458, 2nd d.1461] – red
Digby family – blue
Thomas Grey, Marquis of Dorset [d.1501] – white and dark red [murrey]
(also known as 3rd Lord Grey, 8th Lord Ferrers, Earl of Huntingdon in 1471, Marquis of Dorset in 1475)
Edward, Earl of March/Edward IV [d.1483] – murrey and blue
Edward, Prince of Wales [d.1471] – red and black
Henry Bouchier, Earl of Essex [1st d.1483, 2nd d.1529] – black and green
Henry Holland, Duke of Exeter [d.1475] – white and red
William Neville, Lord Fauconberg, Earl of Kent [d.1463] – white and blue
Walter Devereaux, 7th Baron Ferrers [d.1485] – white and red
Sir Edward Grey, 2nd Lord Grey, 7th Lord Ferrers of Groby [d.1461] – green
Sir John Radcliffe, Lord Fitzwalter [d.1461] – blue
William Bourchier, Lord Fitzwaurin or Fitz-Warine [still active 1469] – white and red [?]
Henry Lord Grey of Codnor [d.1496] – red and green
Edmund, Lord Grey of Ruthin and Earl of Kent in 1465 [d.1490] – red
Sir James Harrington [d.after 1497] – black [?]
William, Lord Hastings [d.1483] – dark red [or purple] and blue
Henry VI [d.1471] – white and blue
Henry VII – white and green
William Herbert, Earl of Pembroke [d.1469] – blue and red
John Howard, Duke of Norfolk [d.1485] – red
Thomas Howard [d.1524] – red and white
Thomas Talbot, Viscount Lisle or L'Isle [d.1470] – blue
Robert, 3rd Lord Hungerford and Lord Molynes [d.1464] – red and green
Francis, Viscount Lovell [died after 1487?] – blue and yellow
Thomas Fitzalan, Lord Maltravers, 12th Earl of Arundel in 1487 [d.1524] – black
John Neville, Lord Montague, earl of Northumberland 1464-1470 [d.1471] – red and black
Walter Blount, Lord Mountjoy – blue
John Neville 2nd Earl of Westmoreland [d.1461] – black and red
John Mowbray, Duke of Norfolk [Ist d.1461, 2nd d.1476] – blue and red
Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland [2nd earl d.1455, 3rd earl d.1461, 4th earl d.1489] – red and black
John De Vere, Earl of Oxford [Ist d. 1462, 2nd d. 1512] – orange or orange tawney
John Paston [d.1479] – red
Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke [d.1495] – white and green
Edward Poynings [active in 1485] – red
Richard of Gloucester/Richard III [d.1485] – murrey and blue
Anthony Woodville, Earl Rivers and Lord Scales [d.1483] – green [but noted as blue and tawney at a tournament of 1478]
Richard Woodville, Earl Rivers [d.1491] – green
Thomas, Lord Roos [d.1464] – blue and yellow
Edmund, Earl of Rutland [d.1460] – murrey and blue
Richard Neville, Earl of Salisbury, 2nd Earl of Westmoreland, [d.1460] – red and black
John, Lord Scrope of Bolton [d. 1498] – white
John Talbot, 2nd Earl of Shrewsbury [1st d. 1460, 2nd d. 1473] – red and black
Henry Beaufort, Duke of Somerset [d.1464] – white and blue
Thomas, Lord Stanley later Earl of Derby [d.1504] – orange tawney and green
William Stanley [d.1495] – red
John De La Pole, Duke of Suffolk [d.1491] – blue and yellow
Humphrey Talbot [active until at least 1483] – black and white
Rhys Ap Thomas 'The Raven' [active until at least 1485] – white
Richard Tunstall [d.1491] – black and white [?]
Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick [d.1471] – red
Lionel, 6th Lord Welles [d.1461] – black and red?
John, Lord Wenlock [d.1471] – white
Henry Willoughby – blue
Robert, Lord Willoughby [d.1501] – red and white
Richard, Duke of York [d.1460]- blue and white
John, Lord Zouche [d.1526] – black and murrey [murrey and purple were often confused]

Town contingents and militias:
1455 Coventry – green and red
1461 Rye – red

get the Freezy Water publications, they are invaluable!

cheers
Matt

Thanks for that Bluewillow, that's very helpful! Seems that yellow and blue was predominant at Stoke.

Just found this after a 'Bing' – very useful as I am venturing into owning 'Roses' for the first time.

One Question – which colour for which side? Are they listed in a particular order – x and y, where x is on the wearers left/right?

The first colour referenced was worn on the right of the livery.

Thanks – I've actually found some references – its the right as you look at it (so 'sinister' for the wearer)

"The first colour referenced was worn on the right of the livery."

From the wearer's perspective or the viewer's?

Hans

I took a few that I could find as indicative of the whole.

Richard III is usually given as 'Murrey (a dark red) and Blue'

link

Here the red is on the 'Sinister' heraldically, i.e. on the bearers left, or Right as you look at it.

The Duke of Buckingham's is given as Black and Red, and the flag flying outside County Hall is Red on the left as you look at it Black on the Right.

Freezywater is definitely the way to go. Invaluable. Save you tons of time. Get the heraldry books and I would also recommend the Poleaxed Rules and Scenarios. The Scenarios are very good and useful for other rulesets, even if you don't use Poleaxed. I'd also consider joining the Lance & Longbow Society.

OK – my research is proper doing my head in. (I will be using 'Shield' and 'Sword' to identify the sides of the body only as this is a constant and not reliant on point of view)

Looking at the list: Richard III and Edward IV listed as 'Murray and Blue' – that's well known, and pictures, etc, show the red/murray on the SHIELD arm. (as mentioned in my post 2 up)

However for others listed as X and Y, the X is shown as on the SWORD arm.

What is happening here? Have I cocked up big style? Or are people forgetting the York livery order when interpreting the colours given?