"Ptolemy Successor Army in 28mm?" Topic

Following on from my earlier posts – if I was to do a 28mm Ptolemy Successor Army where could I find appropriate miniatures to represent the Egyptians?

Polemarch (Gripping Beast), Foundry, 1st Corps…

link

Note the surgery on the Foundry figure, and the similar Polemarch figure, in Part 2.

You can also see the considerable variety of older and newer figures that Jeff uses in his Ptolemaic army, in his Syrian Wars campaign:

link

See also his opponent Paul's blog:

paulwargamespot.blogspot.com

Allen

What time period are we talking? When Ptolemy headed for Egypt there were 10,000 Greek, Thracian and Asia minor mercenaries in Egypt, plus what troops He bring with him. He has about 15,000 troops, at most maybe a fourth Macedonians until Perdiccas show up and get himself killed by troops bribed by Ptolemy. At this point his army starts to grow with all types of troops including Macedonians. By 280 bce it's a different army. "JJ" Should be more than able to answer your questions.

It is destinctly possible that there would have been no noticeable difference between the gear worn by 'Macedonians' and Egyptians in the phalanx. The gear would likely have been state produced (there were certainly armouries in Ptolemaic Egypt).

Quite so and I have mixed the odd 'normal' looking phalangite into my Machimoi unit but the beauty of the native troops is their different appearance from colonist or mercenary phalangites.

Good excuse for another phalanx!!!!

I noitce that Empire Models do some Ptolemaic Pikemen, does anyone know how well these mix with Crusader, Aventine and Gripping Beast?

"It is destinctly possible that there would have been no noticeable difference between the gear worn by 'Macedonians' and Egyptians in the phalanx. The gear would likely have been state produced (there were certainly armouries in Ptolemaic Egypt)."

------> Quite true… this is certainly one place where visual differentiation is more fun though, since we have little idea of what "reality" looked like- although we do know from history that the Ptolemies had more money than trained men, so equipment in that instance is more easy to come by (compare and contrast Plutarch's Cleomenes' problems during the same period- finding men and affording the gear needed Ptolemaic money). The Foundry and Polemarch models with the "baseball cap" brim helmets are just as valid a representation as are the quilted linen dudes (maybe more valid). However, on the tabletop there is no mistaking who are the dudes wearing the dish towels on their heads.

As for Empire models, I never got into them. I felt they dropped the ball by not having greaves. Their legs seem skinny or too long.. or the torsos are too big or the tunics too short… generally the casting quality shown on their website did not impress me, the helmets do not look crisp and the seams are offset in their samples. I hate to say negative things about Successor models. I reckon that the Empire figures look good en masse. Generally they seem compatible in size with Foundry.

link

The main reason why I had Allen paint my Ptolemaic 1st Corps figures was that I had a ton of them and wanted them done. The Polemarch ones are probably more accurate (i.e. less Egyptian looking). I only wish Polemarch had done the helmets in reverse-- have the crested ones with the linothorax models and the non-crested helms with the quilted armor dudes….. but they can be mixed together freely, and one thing nice about crests is that it is generally easier to snip them off then add them on :)

link

JJ

Cavalry are more difficult to find. I use Galatians and Greeks mostly with my old Macedonians as heavies. Native cavalry are another place where Rome Total War has probably gone too native in appearance. The Polemarch and 1st Corps ranges will work. Relic has Tarentines that are nice- mayeb a bit early, so do Aventine… but I reckon Aventine's will be larger than the rest.

Auxiliaries will be the same as most everybody elses.. Thracians, Galatians, Greeks lots of Thureophoroi types some Cretans etc… many Aetolians, cavalry and peltast types. There are few Nubian type models that work in period in 28mm, but they add variety if converted.
One could make a small unique looking "Libyan" phalanx- but that would hardly look like anything other than either regular phalanx, or a phalanx with Carthaginian style helmets and gear.
JJ

I think JJ may have been after this link, above, which shows an Empire phalangite.

link

It is true that some of the Empire sample heads were miscast, which was unfortunate. The Empire models don't mix well with Foundry but I would imagine would look good painted up en-masse.

I started an Egyptian Phalanx mixing Foundry and Polemarch last year- they are very compatible ranges. Need to get back to that…

Simon

Simon,

Did you get my email to your blog?

No Raglan, you can email me at simonmiller60 at gmail dot com

will do

you are looking at three types of phalangite.
a unit of guard (agema) and about 50 : 50 between macedonian phalangites and locally raised ons.

differentiating the agema from teh macedonians is just a matter of finding something 'elite' to work with – I went with purple tunics and a better shield design for mine.
for the main troops though, I went with no linothorax to differentiate my egyptian raised phalangites from the macedonians.,

BTW, macedonians can equally mean actually from Macedon and hired for this war, and 'settlers' who were offered land to settle in egypt in exchange for service in the line, the point was that they trained regularly as opposed to the egyptians who were given little training (and did remarkably well at Raphia accordingly) – a bit of skin tone difference would do the trick too (Ptolemy thought that indians and egptians were comparable in skin colour) – some folk find this ruins the army look though.

Figure wise you can pretty much use any phalangite with linothorax for the M or the A – and also for the Seleucids, and an unarmoured figure for the natives – for native seleucids you could also use trousered phalangites as a differentiation if you want (trousers were an Asian 'thing'). given the choice of ranges is good, I'd pick one range for each differentiation.

there isn't any hard and fast rule on uniform though, so dn't worry too much about getting anything wrong.

Oh, for playability, go with upright pikes and absoultely avoid levelled ones – 80 degrees is a safe-ish compromise if you want action on your bases.

shields pattern wise, Seleucids tend to have the discs inside discs – the anchor in teh middle disc is a seleucid emplem IIRC.
so you should b safe with the sunsplash for the ptollies, especially since most would ahve been born macedonian.
if you fancy the painting, google a ptolemeic coin, to see the scrawney chicken which passed for an eagle holding lightning bolts emblem for them – you will soon decide whether you want to paint that on yourself or not.

and the feather wings on helmets tend to indicate file closers, so pop them on the ends not the middle if you get a few.

Thanks gentlemen,

Raglan

The Ptolemies went for the levy Phalanx, you used to be able to get Eastern phalangites in trousers (in 15mm anyway) and unarmoured phalangites so that is what my "cr*p" phalanx is.

My Elites wear crests ( Ce's t magnifique ) and have metallic shields and lost of Bronze armour, the Line have linen spolas and shields are other colours, and there is less armour around.. :-)

Very good point re pikes at an angle up, *mus* be above opposein enemy troops in bast to base contact.

Veni Vidi Vici make shield transfers, I like to paint my own usually but for phalanx one can be excused IMO ….

BTW, LBMS have some new transfers out – one of which could well be the chicken (eagle) Keraunos has referred to. Will be using these on my Polemarch Egyptians (SUC(GB)5).

link