"The best scale of vehicles for 28mm figures" Topic

In your picture here:

picture

You have in the second row up a squad of miniatures following a 251/1, those models would not fit in that vehicle and does not look like this:

picture

The real vehicle has 7 visable men in it comfortably and can get more in it. However if that is what you want to believe that is fine

Your picture here:

picture

Does not look like the men who are again comfortable in this photo here:

link

Seems we all agree that the current 28mm miniatures are "Chunky" so why keep trying to propagating this myth of these chunky guys being in scale with 1:56th scale vehicles?

If you like it go with it, the current 28mm miniature lines is not and will never be in scale with the 1:56th vehicles. True scaled 28mm miniatures (girth as well as height) would be in scale with 1:56th scale vehicles. Until then 1:48th – 1:50th is a much better fit – again – due to the wargaming and integral bases which adds to the height.

To me this renders your point invalid.

Nice looking photos though – great job.

If you want to put 28mm minis with bases in a vehicle, just chose the right scale : 1/32! Just like the one in WH40K! ;)

Another interesting point is that 1/56 vehicles are wargaming products. 1/48 vehicles are mainly kits for another purpose. When the 1/48 manufacturers will provide easy assembly kits, it will be better for 1/48-28mm gamers.

I have been able to build and paint 10 1/56 churchill in one week. I don't even imagine myself completing the same task with 1/48 kits. :)

Olivier

If you want to put 28mm minis with bases in a vehicle, just chose the right scale : 1/32! Just like the one in WH40K! ;)

When I place my models in my vehicles I don't use wargame bases, I rid them of their base as the vehicle becomes the default base or I add a thin plastic card base enough just to stand. And 40K – well thats a whole different topic

Another interesting point is that 1/56 vehicles are wargaming products. 1/48 vehicles are mainly kits for another purpose. When the 1/48 manufacturers will provide easy assembly kits, it will be better for 1/48-28mm gamers.

Besides the point as the topic is concerning scale. I bought 5 Corgi Churchills cost me less than $100.00) in 1:50th scale pre painted and had them repainted and detailed ready for the table in 5 hours

Are we having fun yet

If you want to put 28mm minis with bases in a vehicle, just chose the right scale : 1/32! Just like the one in WH40K! ;)

When I place my models in my vehicles I don't use bases, I rid them of their base as the vehicle becomes the default base or I glue them onto thin plastic card. And 40K – well thats a whole different topic

Another interesting point is that 1/56 vehicles are wargaming products. 1/48 vehicles are mainly kits for another purpose. When the 1/48 manufacturers will provide easy assembly kits, it will be better for 1/48-28mm gamers.

I bought 5 Corgi Churchills cost me less than $100.00) in 1:50th scale pre painted and had them repainted and detailed ready for the table in 5 hours

Are we having fun yet

Hey, SgtPerry. Your games look fantastic! Even if you are using vehicles that are too small. :-)

Just fantastic the terrain,vehicles etc.

But I think maybe SgtPerry is using figures closer to 25mm.

Measure your guys from foot to eye and then tell us if they are 25mm or 28mm…

It just makes all the difference because:
YES there are some vehicles and figures that are 25mm and people call them 28mm which they are not!

A figure of 28mm can well be a less tall soldier at 1/50.

I also have a massive collection of 1/50 Corgi tanks Churchills,Panther,Tigers etc,they rock they are HEAVY paint job : fantastic!!!and you cant go wrong with them on the wargaming table 28mm troops included!

Like Warlord,my favored method of basing figures is either a thin resin base(I manufacture them)or thin plasticard,metal washer etc,as long as it´s 1 or 2mm thick,this is the best way in my opinion as soldiers appear normal and not as if everyone is fighting from a top of a small mountain !!! :)

Vehicles on bases are just not possible in my side of the planet!
I mean a miniature is much better looking on its own standing on sand,grass or mud…no on an imaginary mountain!:)
Of course it is much better for producers to have them made on mountains so they can make "cup cake"molds rather than 2 part molds,and more vehicle parts.

Its time we make people aware that scale is not always in the eye of the beholder.

I once was writing on a forum like this one and it eventually the matter went to several different directions like anatomic aspects.

People should have a chance to understand about this too,I mean,imagine some guys favoring cartoon figures over correctly anatomical made figures?

In the same way as Warlord is explaining we also should have a intentional and serious approach to correct vehicle scale.

Wargame figures and vehicles will improve over the years and not get worse.

In the future people might be more demanding in terms of quality,so if companies insist on this 25mm non sense and basing everything on thick slabs of resin.

wouldnt it be a lot easier to simply get the dimensions of those 1/56 vehicles and see if they ARE 1/56?

You might not know how tall the figures are "in RL" but you certainly do know how big the vehicles are.

Until then saying "these figures are in scale with it" is a bit premature, see if the vehicles are actually th right scale first of all, far too many people label vehicles at X-scale for nothing other than marketing purposes.

Antenocitis CSR,we are having a somewhat similar talk about this WW2 discution -1/48 tanks I think.

I think people are questioning 1/56 in terms of accuracy for 28mm figures.
I am a producer and I know 28mm is more a style but 1/56 could be a good scale for that style,but 1/52 could also be correct it depends on a number of factors,this is why 1/50 and 1/48 are sometimes labeled as "user friendly" for 28mm soldiers!:)

As to producing vehicles yes,of course we can decide on a scale be it 1/50 or 1/56.
Some producers have decided to go 1/56 some still make 1/50 and 1/48…

You might not know how tall the figures are "in RL" but you certainly do know how big the vehicles are.

Until then saying "these figures are in scale with it" is a bit premature, see if the vehicles are actually th right scale first of all, far too many people label vehicles at X-scale for nothing other than marketing purposes.

I agree 100% but the 28mm miniature needs a point of reference also, if we can agree say that a standard man is 5' 10" then we can bring them in line also with the vehicles. Until the girth issue is dealt with involving 28mm miniatures there will not be a "true scale" scaled down real existing vehicle for them (vehicles that have factual measurements), however the 1:48th – 1:50th vehicles address the disproportioned miniatures much better that the smaller vehicles. 28mm miniatures in terms of height are very chunky so making the vehicle smaller just does not work.

In addition adjusting gun sizes such as MGs would not be necessary as pointed out by Caesar.

Warlord

I still think this argument is pointless. The decision to make a model in 1:56 versus 1:48 really comes down to this.

I'm going to make X. Hey customers, what scale do you want? 1:56 or 1:48?

100 guys say 1:56
6 say 1:48

Which one do you think I'm going to go with? And a conspiracy? Uh, when 1:56 models were first discussed. There was one manufacturer and maybe a dozen models. The choice to go 1:48 would of made more sense as a business, But some companies decided to be compatible with each other, so that no one stepped on each others toes, and if you bought models from X, they would more or less work with models from Y. The reason there are so many models now in that scale is not because of some sort of silly global decision to sell models at a made up scale. It's because if you release a tank , you want the next release to be compatible with the previous. The fact that there are so many models in 1:56 today, simply means that a lot of folks keep buying them.. so more were made.

I've mastered and sold models at both scales. I've created models and/or decals sold by Gas.oline, AGN, JTFM, The Motorpool, Onsite Diecast and Company B. So I can say I've at least had a little experience in this realm. 1/48 really is a different beast all together when you are selling to the modeling community, and if I was to do 1:48, I'd rather stick to Sci_fi or Future models to escape the rivet counters.

Oh, and if you do models in 1/48 scale, and cater to "scale modelers" and "collectors" with finished models, you do need to buy the rights to the name of the model, and pay royalties to the company who designed it. So if you make a 1/48 Abrams, better write that check to General Dynamics.

There is a reason that the great 1/48 resin kits from Gas.oline are expensive. 1/48 does give you a bigger canvas, and I'd want to pack as much detail as I could into that canvas. That means photo etch, and metal details (which I would need in order to sell the kit to the model crowd or collectors). That also means my kit prices go up, way up.

But I'll bite. If there really is a market for 1/48, what do you want? Something that does not exist yet in a kit or diecast hopefully, and there are a lot of models available already in 1/48. Name it and we'll see if there really is demand for it.

For the record, I do have a 1/48 Russian T-90 Black Eagle master I'm going to cast this summer. Just a short run though for a private party.

As for the 1/48 SdKfz 251/D JTFM has that. Well the master anyway from AM Ashcroft. I'd suggest asking them to run the mold, as I'm sure he'd do it if the demand was there.

Thanks for your insight deldiech.
For me this is about having models made for wargamers and collectors much rather than rivet counters.

To have models blend in with the majority is the objective I just cant have a mold made to cater to myself and 6 other gamers who share my own tastes.

Portugal is a great country,wargaming however is not very popular here,so it is impossible to ask the 5 guys arround the 1 and a half shops (shop) we have here…so I value your opinions greatly.

The 1:56th scale market was created, at some point and a lot of folks were convinced that it was the true scale for 28mm miniatures and the market was born. There was virtually no one who did this scale a few years ago so by creating a demand and convincing folks that it is the "true scale" for 28mm it also created a void which needed to be filed – and those companies did. As this myth was propagated so did demand for that scaled vehicles increased – brilliant marketing.

The 1:48th – 1:50th scale vehicle market has been filled for many, many years and many companies have produced them by the 10s of thousands. If the 1:56th scale companies went this route they would be competing with a HUGE and ever changing market place and dealing with multiple competition that could flood the market place with a lot more for less and LOTS of it. Classic Armor Die cast came on the scene a few years back and folks here on TMP were going to multiple stores to find these vehicles – why? Because you could get a very nice model pre-painted and great detail for $5.95! If any company was producing say the PzKpfw IV model at this time I bet they saw a drop in sales.

The 1:56th scale companies had an "empty bucket" to fill, if you wanted a vehicle in 1:56th scale you have to get it from one of those companies. If I want a 1:48th scale Pz IV you have multiple companies you can choose from. The 1:48th – 1:50th scale demand has been filled for years by multiple companies and in many different settings (wargamers and modelers alike). The 1:48th – 1:50th scales market is MUCH larger than the 1:56th scale market and has been going for years.

This is how it works out:
Guys who already own 1:48th – 1:50th vehicles and companies producing them – NUMERIOUS
Guys who already own 1:56th vehicles and companies producing them – ZERO

If you can convince folks that this is the "true scale" you open up a HUGE void and then you fill it.

If folks want to buy and sell the smaller 1:56th scale vehicles then by all means go for it but stop saying falsely the 1:56th scale vehicle is the true scale to the current 28mm miniatures.

Silly – no, pointless – not at all, There are so many points mentioned in this thread which are not relevant to the issue of scale. Until the girth issues are dealt with concerning the 28mm miniature, 1:56th scaled vehicles are NOT the true scale to the current 28mm line of miniatures on the market. It is a matter of preference and I for one prefer the 1:48th – 1:50th scaled models.

LUSITANUS

I'd suggest 1:55. Or just scale the models to your figures and call them 28mm. They'll be compatible with 1:56 to 1:60 that way. If they were no other models in 1:48 that matched yours (say some of the early war tanks) then even folks who use 1:48 would turn to your model, since late war and early don't mix anyway. The advantages would be that your models match other manufacturers, and could in turn be carried with them to local cons, etc. If you for example did some Hungarian tanks in 1:56 (or approximately the same) You would essentially be a niche market for that specific period. (not that that is what you want to do) Previously, we 1:56 manufacturers sort of swapped parts and did trades. So if your tank used the same 37mm gun as ours, we'd trade metal masters with you for some casts to use in our games, etc. It was sort of a friendly relationship. That's sort of not been the case lately, but I still would not model something that I knew was in the pipeline of another manufacturer (unless mine was already started…)

I doubt you'd get the same back and forth from Tamiya or Corgi ;-)

The big problem with 1:48, is the costs. Even Gas.oline tried to do cheaper wargame models, and although the models were nice, no one really bought them. Hence, Oliver really has not wanted to do more with it. And it's very difficult to cast a resin and metal kit and retail it for the same as a plastic kit mass produced in China. It's impossible actually. The shipping costs of the raw materials alone would eat into any profit margins (assuming you don't even pay yourself and just wanted to break even) So the issue is that you would need to create a resin 1:48 model that did not exist in 1:48(or will come in the future) the margins are slim. If Tamiya comes along and does your same model, you pretty much will never have any chance to recover the costs. And most wargamers will always buy the $6 USD tank from Wallmart, rather than a $30 USD tank from you. It's just simple math. I don;t blame em.

And that's the gist of it. 1:56 models are made by small cottage industry guys that do it for fun, and to promote their other products. The 1:48 stuff is made in large quantities in factories by very large companies. A big release for me is 40 to 60 models being sold. Do you really think Tamiya would focus on sales on 50 units a quarter? Probably not. But that 50 units means I'm more willing to take a chance on off the wall stuff. Even stuff in 1:48 if enough folks were actually interested.

Sorry Warlord, I don't buy it.

Give me an example of how I marketed and convinced anyone that 1/56th is the only scale for 28mm. For that matter, I don't think I've ever said that 1/56 is the true scale for 28mm. I have said that it's compatible, and I've also said that 1/48 is compatible as well. I've been to numerous cons where I've pointed folks to 1/48 models if they didn't want ours. Our marketing literally is you make something and you put it out there. If folks buy it, you make more. The market demands the product. We can't force a product onto the market that no one wants.

Yet you seem to insist that somehow 1/56 manufacturers (which would include myself) are up to something sinister and trying to force a fake scale on people.

I'm not sure how your comparison is very good, since there really are no 1/48 models that compete with ours. How many 1/48 1936 M1 scout cars are there? 1/48 M3 Stuarts? 1/48 HaGo? Yes, Gas.oline makes some. And they are much more expensive.

As far as classic armor diecast, those models appeared several years after AGN already had them in 1:56. So I doubt he decided there was a market for 1:56 versions of these tanks, because of outstanding sales of 1:48 ones. And your right, it makes no sense to make a model for $20 USD when one for $5 USD is out. I have a beautiful 1:48 master model in Brass for an all metal Marder III and Steyr RSO. They even have articulated working tracks. I was planning to release it as a all metal kit, more along the lines of a Solido toy, instead of a static model. But Classic Armor came out with their Marder, so I shelved them. Why would anyone by an assembled all metal cool Toy for $20 USD when a painted model was available for $5?

As far as agility, well, it's easy enough to make a high quality 1:48 kit. But I doubt folks would want to pay for one. I think that market is much smaller than folks think it is. If folks would talk to the guys already in the market, like Gas.oline, or some of the smaller kit venders, they'd see that.

I might just do that deldietch,my production is situated on the same lines as most of you,to face competition of both globalization and monopolies is hard enough,so yes,most of us are here because we like to.

My figures are all being made to be completely compatible with most 28mm figures productions(or so I hope)along with a serious commitment to "bring something new" as well as the usual themes to cater to most wargamers.

The matter of scale for 28mm figures is an on going debate that will arise regularly because of the several standards of 28mm figure production,but this could be a god thing,if producers find a way to use it to their advantage,which so far I think they might have.

deldietch,

Give me an example of how I marketed and convinced anyone that 1/56th is the only scale for 28mm. For that matter, I don't think I've ever said that 1/56 is the true scale for 28mm.

Never stated "you" did that specifically, however I have seen this statement mentioned several times from folks who strongly support that scale and recall this statement from you:

Fact – 1:48 models scale with 1:48 figures. 1:48 vehicles are compatible with 28mm miniatures.
28mm miniatures scale with 1:56 models.

Link (24th reply down I believe):

TMP link

The fact is that 28mm miniatures DONOT scale with 1:56th scale vehicles.

We can't force a product onto the market that no one wants.

You can create a market by propagating a belief and then filled a void which many companies have indeed done and if this is what has been done, so be it. However I still say that it needs to be known that 1:56th scale DOES NOT and will NEVER equate to the current market place of 28mm miniatures. Anyone wants to choose either scale because they like it for them selves is one thing but to suggest or state 1:56th scale is in scale with current 28mm miniatures as a fact is false.

Seems to me that folks want 1:48th – 1:50th scaled vehicles just fine, however the popular kit types are saturated so we too are looking for the hard to find not made kits. If you want to believe that no one wants kits in the larger scale go right ahead, but this thread alone shows that there is an interest.

Yet you seem to insist that somehow 1/56 manufacturers (which would include myself) are up to something sinister and trying to force a fake scale on people.

There are several folks here who mentioned that there may have been a campaign to bring people to believe that the folks behind the 1:56th scale drive have an agenda, I believe Ceasar mentioned it first and others seeing his point followed suit. I don't know if it is "sinister" or why it would have to be "sinister" (folks who propagate this may truly believe what they are saying is true) or if it is even a fact but it does seem to have some merit:

So the issue is that you would need to create a resin 1:48 model that did not exist in 1:48(or will come in the future) the margins are slim. If Tamiya comes along and does your same model, you pretty much will never have any chance to recover the costs.

This is one of the points I made earlier concerning going into the 1:48th – 1:50th scale and it makes sense why one would make a business decission to choose to pick another scale. You have to admit by going into that scale does give you quite a "void" to fill, and as for mentioned seems you are very aware that if the BIG BOYS want to make a kit you already made you will have a problem (Heaven forbid they are convinced 1:56th scale is the way to go).

It is an interesting point that was brought up by Ceasar and I, as others can see the agenda in this as valid. However I don't hold anything against anyone who want to make, use, collect this scale at all. Once again I don't like to see this being pushed as a fact. 1:56th scale is not to scale with the current line of 28mm miniatures until the girth issue is dealt with.

Thank you for your response, I do like to know the reasoning behind the decision of going into the smaller scale – it is educational.

I think we all agree that we all like that our chosen scale of "28mm" is getting a lot of attention now – ‘bout time!

Warlord

I think it comes down to cost and table space. I use 15mm buildings with my 20mm plastics because you get the point of what the terrain is supposed to be as well as a sufficient footprint on the table. So i tend to use 1/48 but as always, some "prefer blondes": pick the gal you're happiest with…..!

The choice comes to simple math. A 5 foot 10 in person, reduced down to about the size of a wargame miniature in 1/56 scale is about 31.75mm tall.

Same figure in 1/48 scale is 36.83mm tall.

We make our own line of miniatures, namely Marines, Japanese and interwar, sculpted by the same guys who do miniatures for Artizan, Bolt Action, etc. We send the vehicles, they sculpt to fit the models. So yes, 28mm are scaled to fit our models, as we produce both. This however does not encompass all 28mm miniatures, and I can only speak to our own models. That said, if you think our models are too small or you have already invested in a nice 1/48 army, that does not stop people from buying our crews, accessories and decals that seem to be scale agnostic. And quite frankly I'm more than happy to make more of those as needed.

Of all the examples above, no one has even mentioned a real 1/56 model. The Bolt Action German Halftrack is not 1/56 scale. Its slightly smaller. If you put it next to a JTFM halftrack, you'd see the JTFM model is actually a full 1/8 inch wider.

Likewise, the US halftrack from them is about the same size as a Corgi model in width and height, dwarfing our own 1/56 halftrack. (which by the way, has a full sculpted/seated 28mm crew to fit inside)

So I would say that are models are not too small at all. They were designed at the same time. However, if you put these on a base, of course 1/48 looks right to some. You just put them on risers! The interesting thing will be if Mr. Meir ever releases his wonderful 1/48 miniatures, there will be a big dilemma, as none of the current crop of 28's will go with them. I have two full platoons of 1/48 tanks waiting for him to release something..So I'll be a customer as well. But that brings up another point. Weapons. There is a certain size limit on what you can cast in metal. Basically, you can never cast something as small and delicate as a true 28mm weapon. For that matter, it's almost just as hard to cast them in 1/48 (unless you use photo etch or extruded plastic) so the weapons on a miniature are meant to be representative. Not a true scale. It's for that reason that you hardly ever see any 28mm miniatures used in 1/48 diorama's. Now, 1/48 figures would actually be easier to make the weapons for and have them cast correctly. You get a bigger canvas, and more detail. But please remember that the figures are 36mm tall, without the base.

The girth issue is a problem two fold. One, these models are metal. So the same model at that scale if made of "cloth" may fit just fine in BAM's small halftrack. But, these models are metal, to the very nature of them being immovable, requires a models interior to be slightly over scale, in order to fit unaltered miniatures. Many of the newer moderns (Empress not included, as they have nice skinny figures) are a bit larger, so it makes sense to use 1/48 in that capacity. Though, lets be honest here… they also have true 1/48 miniatures that dwarf the "28's" So you cannot really say that that is the perfect solution either.

For LUSITANUS, I think you would do well to make a true scale set of miniatures in 28mm (foot to eye) Vehicles, well, pick a period first. then see what your competition is, and make yours better. And if you want to experiment first, give me a PM. I have several new projects/vehicles prepping for release later this year (28mm scale..they are not based on real historical models, so no problem there!) and I can actually use some new miniatures to crew and man the weapon systems and form squads. The "genre" is WW2 so you should be comfortable with the style.

In terms of figures,we must also consider that the soldiers did no carry their equipment inside the vehicle,canteens,bread bags and gas mask containers were usually only carried outside,plus Panzer grenadiers carried a lighter kit,than normal Infantry.

Perhaps if one places a Panzer crewman wit
h nothing else than his sidearm as equipment,maybe scale will be more in tune!

This dialog is mostly about vehicles and how they relate to figures,a lot has been already said about the figures,the thickness of most models,different approach towards sculpting,and more especially for me as a sculptor the NEW SCULPTING standards that we are now seeing from most manufacturers,that being a new more anatomically correct way to make soldiers,thin true to human figure,thin as in more in touch with reality,smaller hands,smaller heads,etc.

This does not mean we will give up the great advantages we have on 28mm like some character and even sometimes humor conveyed on some figures but now it will be there along with better quality figures.
deldietch how can I PM you?where is the option?

oh dear why does everything have to be so ***** complicated??? I'm a wargamer-I've just spent FAR too long making one solitary 1/48 scale scwimmenwagen from Tamiya. I just know it'll ed up falling apart even though I have superglued it heavily. I compared it to a corgo style jeep (not sure of make) and to the Warlord Brit para jeep and then to some 28mm chaps (I have Artizan Fallschirmjagers, old style BAM Brits, Para's and Resistance) and have to join everyone saying that 1/48 just looks right for your 28mm figures-whatever scale they really are. I've played with real jeeps and I'm afraid that the Warlord jeep-lovely model that it is- just looks far too small (on another thread I did comment that it reminds me size wise of the mini moke). BUT I just don't want to spend 2 days buiding one model!

So please can someone help and make some nice quick to use and relatively affordable (and available) light vehicles and commonly encountered armour? And lastly can whoever does choose this challenge please describe their productions as 'Heroic 28mm wargames scale'-as I think every wargamer knows what that means.

22ndIndependent;

I don't know if this will help, but I have a friend who ordered 3 of the 1:56th jeeps and just like you when he got them he was disappointed in the small size. He went after the Corgi die cast jeeps (got some on Ebay for about $7.00 USD each and kept the crew and equipment but sold the jeeps to guys who wanted the 1:56th jeeps – so it all worked out for him.

May be you can try that?

I think many of our wargaming models today are being produced with simplicity in mind 22ndIndependent.

Coming from a modelling background I dread the days of "rivet counting"today I spend much more time sculpting soldiers and collecting tanks and vehicles on several scales 1/56,1/50,1/48 and 1/43,the market is flooded I even have some civilian 1/43 models converted into military use and those are bags of fun,in terms of material you would need little more than a can or 2 of paint some guns/shovels/Jerry cans etc.

One thing I will try to get away from is based vehicles I mean,maybe clubs like them but for me I spoils the look of the vehicle…to have mud or heavy grass always there…even when they are traveling down the paved roads…

Bought a Copplestone Lanchester A/C. It's said to be 1/55 in scale but when I put it next to the Sloppy Jalopy Austin, which is 1/48, it's as big. Does this mean that one is in a larger scale than it says or one is smaller.

The Lanchester was 4.88 Meters long so :

For 1/55 scale 488 divided by 55 = 8,872 Centimetres
3.45 Inches

For 1/48 scale 488 divided by 48 = 10,16 Centimetres
4 Inches

If you can confirm which one you have.

Lusitanus the Lanchester that I have is just over 10cm which by your reckoning makes it 1/48 scale. However the stats that I found said it was 6.10 meters long which, again by your reckoning, should make it;

1/48 – 12.7cm
1/55 – 11.09cm

So, not being an expert on inter war military vehicles, you can see my confusion.

I want to help as I also have the same doubts and I am in the process of releasing 28mm figures and vehicles.
There is another Lanchester a bigger one which must be the one you have it is a 6 wheeler so is yours?
Measuring 20 ft – 6.1 Meters!

It is indeed the 6 wheeler. The stats that I found also said that the Austin was 6.12 meters in length. Just a bit bigger than the 6 wheeled Lanchester. When you put the 2 models that I have side by side there's very little difference, if any, between them. This is why I'm a little confused when one is supposed to be 1:48 and the other 1:55. They look, and using the stats I have, to be the same scale, which is not 1:48.

I suppose this means that, like figures, scale in vehicles is open to the manufacturers interpretation.

So what youare saying is that the one at 1/55 scale is really closer to the 1/48 zone giving it´s similarity to the Austin truck.
It really depends and I am not an expert but what most of us have been saying is that if it looks good than it´s good to wargame with.
To me it´s much better to have a vehicle going into the bigger area than having a small cartoon car that will look too small hence rather out of place.

In terms of figures it´s a hole different ball game:

Manufacturers should divide 25mm and 28mm in the name of accuracy,I know many dont mind to mix but others like to stick to real 28mm.

Most buyers that come to these forums asking for compatible soldiers are just trying to make sense of 25mm soldiers sold as 28mm ones!

28mm productions vary in 2 main types in my opinion:

Bulky – depending if they were sculpted some years ago or sculpting style.large heads/hands etc.

Slimmer – today´s approach to a more anatomical aware sculpting making soldiers look more human and realistic.
Torsos are sculpted slimmer,heads and hands are more in tune with the body.

28mm productions vary in 2 main types in my opinion:

Bulky – depending if they were sculpted some years ago or sculpting style.large heads/hands etc.

Slimmer – today´s approach to a more anatomical aware sculpting making soldiers look more human and realistic.
Torsos are sculpted slimmer,heads and hands are more in tune with the body.

I agree with your statement, except I think you got it the other way around. The trend is toward larger/bulkier figures, not slimmer ones.

Take Warlord's new lines for instance. They went from thin and 'realistic' to cartoony and chunky. As unrealistic as the bulky, so-called Foundry/GW style of sculpting may be, they are popular because they are 'characterful' and 'heroic.' Warlord's taking a page out of Artizan Design's and Crusader's playbook by bulking up their miniatures.

Granted, Artizan Design's newer sculpts are a little slimmer than their earlier releases, but they are still pretty bulky and by no means 'anatomically correct.'

Don't underestimate the appeal of bulky 'unrealistic' figures. They look pretty good on the table top and not everyone likes perfectly sculpted figures (anatomically speaking).

Wrong because the tendencies as you have noticed on Artizan and also in my opinion Foundry,and other leading manufacturers and sculptors like Meier,are going towards accuracy and quality.

As you read this forum and other you must realize there is a trend of having 28mm productions achieve some level of quality,this is true also about vehicles in true scale.

Many are branding soldiers as 25/28mm,this is not necessarily a good thing as as I have mentioned on my last post:Most buyers that come to these forums asking for compatible soldiers are just trying to make sense of 25mm soldiers sold as 28mm ones!

So as you see producers have chosen to have 25mm as a closer relative to 28mm and not 36mm(1/48)so going thin not just because of this but also because of all the correct anatomical aspects of human measurements.

As a producer myself I can say this is a good turn for now we can have soldiers that do not look like toys or cartoons.

On the other hand I still have a lot of "character" conveyed to my sculptures,along with normal sized hands,heads etc.

But LUSITANUS, we're not talking about what you or I prefer in terms of style. We are talking about what's coming out in the market today. There are the slimmer, more realistic proportioned figures you mentioned of course, but the more recent and popular 28mm WWII figures are mostly (I would estimate 75%) the 'unrealistic' bulky style. The latest Warlord plastics and metals is an example of companies moving AWAY from realism and toward more 'chunkiness.'

Maybe your new 28mm line can turn this trend around toward the thinner (more realistic) figures, but the market right now as it stands is dominated by the so-called Foundry style of sculpting, which is the chunkier style. That is the style I prefer.

Sorry, but my understanding is that Artizan, Crusader et al has set the tone of 28mm, which is toward the bulky style. That's why Warlord followed their lead.

picture

picture

My friend I think we agree after all,went to the shop and had a good look:here are 2 pictures with some figures:

On the one with 5 figures we have: a Brit Para by Black Tree,a Bolt Action Brit Para,2 Perry Napoleonics,and a DAK by Black tree.

I like all of them,there are some variations in sculpture,1st one is big,2nd smaller face and size generally,3rds slimmer(but it could be a matter of uniform)and the last is average in my opinion.

And the funny thing is, I consider Black Tree and (early) Bolt Action to be small, since my collection is comprised mostly of Artizan and Crusader miniatures.

Black Tree's Brit Para looks pretty close to Bolt Action's Brit Para in your picture. I think Foundry's should also be pretty close in size, maybe a bit smaller.

But Artizan's and Crusader's are definitely bigger and bulkier. Bolt Action's (now Warlord) US Paras are actually pretty big, since I mix them with my Artizan US Paras for 'Band of Brothers' type scenarios. On the other hand Black Tree's US Paras are much thinner and smaller. Black Tree miniatures are not consistent in size and style.

In terms of popularity, I'll have to say the top three are Artizan, Warlord and Crusader. Black Tree isn't as popular due to their inconsistent figures and unreliable customer service. You seem to have quite a few Black Tree though.

Victory Force (32mm) has a strong cult following. The Assault Group and West Wind lag somewhat behind due to incomplete ranges and perhaps 'too many peas in the pod.'

There is a company that makes beautiful 28mm miniatures in the thinner, more realistic style. They only have US Paras right now but they will be releasing German Fallschirmjagers next. Unfortunately, they don't release them very quickly. Check out their website:

link

BTW if you plan to do 28mm you should do the thinner, more realistic style because there are too much of the big figures and we need some balance for people who prefer more realistic figures and 1/56 vehicles. You may have a niche there (which sounds like the direction you're leaning).

Yes but I am not in the direction of creating a "niche" product,I mean the niche got me into a dark corner once!LOL

See the Warlord Napoleonics in grey plastic,the is a good size in terms of scale and realistic anotomics while still maintaining the 28mm spirit of figure sculpting would you agree?

Victory Force 32mm is really 28mm from foot to eye and then another 4mm or so till the top of the helmet hat etc,correct?

Have not seen Warlord's napoleonics since I don't do the period, but like Black Tree their figures can be inconsistent in size. As mentioned before, they bought out the company that was Bolt Action and the Bolt Action ranges tend to be small/skinny. Warlord's new ranges (like their plastic Germans and Brits and metal Waffen SS and Polish) are bigger/bulkier.

Victory Force is considered to be 30mm. They don't really mix with anything else. Like Valiant miniatures' so-called 1/72. This is so that people who buy their figures will buy no one else's.

mainly28s.com

28mm WWII is a bit overcrowded right now. There are many options, sculpting styles and sizes to choose from. If you enter this scale I hope you will find sales.

Thanks WW2Fanatic!I know it is overcrowded but it is also a matter of being out there in the shops,events,etc.and if the quality is there it just might fly,I mean people look for good brands and good prices but quality must play a big role!
My 28mm figures are 28mm to eye level and are very good,in my opinion in terms of sculpture and special attention towards equipment.

I have to ask, do 1/56 WWII figures exist?

I know some historical ranges being sculpted to 1/56 scale such that the figures are proportional and weapons slighter (e.g.- Minden SYW, Fife & Drum AWI). Is anyone doing this in 1/56 for WWII to match those vehicles? It might present a solution to the impasse people have with chunky 28mm figures and 1/56 vehicles, especially troop carriers that look too small.

Disclaimer: The above is just a suggestion and not one I'd jump on as a customer myself. I'm perfectly happy with the several hundred 28mm figures and several dozen 1/48 or 1/50 vehicles in my collection.

That is exactly what most of us have,I do and I still buy 3 or more different scales of vehicles,even the huge 1/43,if the price is good and quality of course,the thing is availability is not there yet:

I mean on several years in the hobby I have never seen a 28mm or a 1/56 vehicle on our wargames shops here…have seen Tamyia tanks being bought at the Model shop and then brought in the wargaming shop,for a client or too…

We see a lot of new figures coming out with a more realistic approach so less chunky…remember this is also an advantage as this will blend better with 25mm figures,
Figures being 28mm tall to eye level will be about 32mm tall in a common helmet mind.On my productions the height will be distributed according to a normal human body as in no extra large hands or pumpkin heads.

As to scale it really depends on what height you start with for the calculation,but 1/56 is about right as a bit bigger also is…so it´s not splitting hairs but it depends,I would say as long as it looks right it´s ok!

If the vehicle you mentioned is the Hanomag that was perhaps meant for the smaller 25mm so it might look small with big old 28mm soldiers standing by it´s side…

Umm so what scale are the Warlord Bolt Action Vehicles?

If they sell 28mm figs, and they also make vehicles, then we can assume that their vehicles are the proper scale and case closed right?

It is important to state at first that their figures and vehicles are great quality and vastly important to the hobby in general.

In terms of accuracy your question has been answered along some posts on this thread,by some clients that talk about these products in 1st hand,and you dont have to search far or read all the textes just throw a quick read of some and you will find some valid answers as I have.

Having sampled some of the figures in terms of size they appear to be somewhat slimmer and smaller than other 28mm figures so going closer towards 25mm but still good for the 28mm category this might have been an option,as to the vehicles I could not say as I do not have any from them but in general you will find answers do point out they could benefit with an increase in size (scale).

The 28mm soldier should measure 28mm from foot to eye level,of course there are humans of many sizes,but as far as equipment,rifles,vehicles etc. you can measure them up and so have an exact scale result.

The scale generally adopted is 1/56 for (28mm) soldiers and weapons and then varies when it comes to vehicles.

I do say varies because it depends on which brand you are using,in general 1/56 to 1/50 look great and the figures will fit perfectly,remember 28mm soldiers are not just a scale but also a size,genre or style so your own opinion will be really important in deciding what you feel looks best.
For example I really like vehicles to look big enough so soldiers can look like they can enter them with no problems,and so I do not favor the other way around of having gigantic soldiers dwarfing tiny vehicles that may look small.But again in terms of vehicles it is really easy to have their scale measured.

I use the "they look good to me" scale. :D

Exactly !!! also my scale of choice !!!

Warlord stuff is reported to be 1/56th. it matches well with JTFM, Company B and AGN stuff that all 1/56 too.

I have commented on this issue often before as we addressed it at Sloppy Jalopy when we started the company. At the time we were trying to decide which true scale to use for our vehicles which were intended for WW1 and Interwar figures. We got a whole range of figures at the time from the main companies doing 28mm WW1 and Interwar stuff (Copplestone, Pulp, Renegade and Brigade along with others) and used scaled models and cutouts for both 1/56th and 1/48th which we compared with photographs from the period and measurements from vehciels in the museums to decide which was the best scale.

It became apparent very quickly that for all those ranges the 1/48th scale more closely matched the figures in term,s of size than the 1/56th. I think this has been borne out since and has been reinforced as new companies such as Great War came on the market.

When we turned to the modern vehicles we were specifically looking to support the Mongrel and MoFo Ranges which, whilst still 28mm were much slighter than the WW1 and Interwar ranges. Again after looking at comparisons our designers decided that we should go with 1/56th which better suited the ranges we were aiming to support.

So I think that all of this is a long winded way of agreeing with kingscarbine. Given the huge variation in 28mm ranges I don't think there ever can be one correct true scale, even within a period. The best you can do is see which scale best matches the figures you are intending to use and go with that.

1:35 scale, because I like my tanks to be brutishly large for sci-fi gaming.

I see your point Tricks but what about the future productions in 28mm?

Is there going to be a change in future sculpting in girth/thickness of figures and equipment going towards the slimmer more anatomical correct sculptures?

Some companies have somewhat changed their style of figures choosing this better representation of the human sizes and equipment/weapons so producing a more life like product ( a nicer soldier figure),but some still have a thick feel about them.

I have started this debate because to me it is still important to have a clear view of past,present and future ways of production.Being a producer myself,I know it is still a major subject and one that will come around in our debates at least once every year,proving that there is a good future for 28mm and that hopefully quality (in sculpture)will have something to do with it!

Very interesting thread and links, thanks.

Funny enough: I have some old magazines of the 1970s-1980s, "Uniformes" which was for military miniatures painters (not wargamers) and some article complained about sizes changes over the years: miniatures slowly grew bigger and bigger, because people wanted more detail; then at some moment that went too far and there was a new fashion for smaller miniatures… and then it started all over again.

Size evolution in wargame miniatures is certainly slower because wargamers are more reluctant to discard their old armies; on the other hand, influence or WH40K, and pics of very well painted minis on blogs, may push towards bigger minis.

About vehicles: early tanks were VERY small things
picture

…Personnaly I feel more inclined towards 1/50th (but not 1/48th…)