"95th ' Derbyshire' Foot 1854 flag colour" Topic

This regiment had yellow facings but their Regimental colour appears to be black with the red cross of St George.
Anyone know why its not yellow like the facing colour?
Cheers.

This is a guess . . . but the 95th (Derbyshire) Regiment of Foot was formed when the 95th Rifles were redesignated as The Rifle Brigade.

Futher, it is my understanding that The Rifle Brigade had Green tunics faced with Black . . . so presumably the field of their colours might be black also.

In the 1881 reforms, they were amalgamated with the 45th into the Derbyshire Regiment (aka "The Sherwood Foresters") with the facing color of yellow. See here:

link

I hope that his helps.

-- Jeff

Thanks, Jeff.
You have a point, its just that Ian Sumner in his 'British Colours & Standards 1747-1881(2)' p.61 states – "There was never any question of this incarnation of the 95th Foot taking over the battle honours won by its predecessor". I would presume that would include facing colours, and I don't think the previous 95th Foot had any Colours, they being a rifle regiment?
But good call!
Cheers.

The 95th Foot was formed in 1823, when the previous 95th Foot (Rifles) became the Rifle Brigade and lost their number designation; it became the Derbyshire Regiment in 1825. It had no connection with any of the previous 95th Foot regiments. The new 95th had black facings hence the black colour. In 1881 it became the 2nd Battalion of the Sherwood Foresters and its facings became white; they were changed to Lincoln Green in 1913.

Cheers,

David
nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com

P.S. Yes, that's right; the 95th Rifles did not have colours.

Thanks, David.
Although I'll have to ask you where the reference is to the 95th Derbyshires having black facings. Every reference I have (Barthorp, Cox & lenton, Wilkinson-Latham,)says that the facings were yellow. Are they all wrong? That would explain the black flag, but these guys know what they're on about, don't they?
I'd really like that reference David!

It's in the (usually reliable) chart in the back of Dino Lemonofides book "British Infantry Colours" (Almark) – but I now think it's wrong! I've done a lot of hunting around and as e.g. the Sherwood Foresters' website: wfrmuseum.org.uk/badges.htm and wfrmuseum.org.uk/crimea.htm shows an early coatee and also illustrations of Crimean War uniforms showing yellow facings, I think the yellow facings are correct. There's also a Mark Churms painting of the colours of the 95th at the Alma, with the regimental colour as yellow: link (His research is usually pretty good.) There's also a reference in Milne's book ("Standards and Colours of the Army 1661-1881") to a yellow regimental colour for the 95th.

So, it pays to do your research from multiple sources before trusting any book! (I usually do – but was in rather a rush on this one… Fools leap in and all that ;-).)

Cheers,

David
nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com

Thankyou David!!
Those links are excellent. I think you have solved the riddle!
This question came about because the flag sold with the Warlord Games Crimea British infantry has a black flag sopposedly belonging to the 95th.
Now I know it is incorrect.
Cheers!

Well, right or wrong, you DO have some research to back-up whatever colour you choose to use . . . and that is all that is really needed.

-- Jeff

Yes, I think we've finally got there! :-)

The only regiment that I can find that served in the Crimea and had black facings was apparently the 89th Foot (Princess Victoria's), later the 2nd Battalion Royal Irish Fusiliers. Perhaps that is the unit whose flag you have from Warlord Games?

Cheers,

David
nba-sywtemplates.blogspot.com

That Black Regimental Colour is probably the Colour of the previous 95th Regiment (i.e. the Rifle Brigade). Rifle regiments not having colours issued only dates back to 1823. The 95ths battalions were, like every single battlion of the army, issued a King's and Regimental Colour. Like all light infantry regiments they did not carry them in battle. Instead they resided at HQ. This has led to rather oft repeated claims that rifle regiments were not issued Colours, which is only true from 1823 onwards.

The practice of light infantry regiments leaving their Colours in the barracks when on campaign dates back further than the American Revolution. By 1777 no British Regiment in America was carrying Colours, which saved them being captured at Saratoga for example.

The Regimental Colour of the new 95th was indeed Yellow like the facings.

I'd be interested to know where you saw this Black Colour. I was under the impression the Old 95th Colours were laid up in Winchester.

95th Derbyshire, wore white facings. Thats whats in the Regimental Museum in Nottingham castle.

"the nails" solid veteran unit.

The actual colour may be here:

wfrmuseum.org.uk/Alma.htm

It is indeed yellow !

If anyone has already bought one of my black ones ( thanks very much Mr Lemonofides ! )
Please contact me for a free replacement.

TMP link

Grahame Black
gmbdesigns.com